Tribes OP!

[DanteOne]

Tribes definately need a nerf

1. Instant Freeze
all other abilities are have a cast time AND/OR weak caster + arent that long

2. Healing ability of HP
100% healing for 120mana + 12 secs CD. are u kidding?

3. Guardians
taunt + blink + high dmg + ability...

4. Seperate builders
they can build while now at place like human/cult have to

5. Tornado Cooldown
a joke

[Sonntagshut]

1. Ok, true, though the long time mostly comes from the stacking of skills + artifacts. Don't have units standing at the same position weakens that one too.

2. Hard to nerf as it is good with the short cd in Coop, though the costs could be increased a bit.

3. I really think they do not have a taunt... for the rest is, strong, but weak hp and armor.

4. Can't tell, haven't played dm so far

5. In Coop, Tornado isn't good for anything anyway do what you want ;)

[DanteOne]

well as u say: u dont play much DM

THIS IS ALL ABOUT DM, not COOP

so dont post if your meaning is about coop. its completely different

[Sonntagshut]

I just stated that its not just THAT easy to balance pvp, as its not the only aspect of the game, I know some game where pvp balance ruined alot of pve fun.

[Frujin]

I just stated that its not just THAT easy to balance pvp, as its not the only aspect of the game, I know some game where pvp balance ruined alot of pve fun.

We are aware of this :) .. I dare to say so far we are doing good job on balancing the game. What I would like to say is that we do not look on the balance as something you just do and forget. It is a living thing and we are going to constantly refine it .. not until perfect - because there is no such thing as "perfect balance" - but until we can afford doing so :)

We are happy we achieved our goal - creating a a game is simple on the surface, but has nice level of tactical depth. I dare to say, there are combos and mechanics "planted" into the design that are still not "discovered" as possibilities on the battlefield. So ... we are here .. and we are watching carefully what happens with the game.

/* one of Frujin's memorable speeches! */

[nOpe]

The bad sides of such speeches are that we have further questions now. And you don't answer, right? :evil: ;)

[Frujin]

Ah, I always answer whan I can .. shoot?

[Hexon]

if full sspecialization on brutes that tank impossible to kill

Brutes+Guardians+Freeze

I don't know with what i can kill that .....

I tried with humans and all times i lose :
1) reapers + enginers + jude
2) and troopers + medics +jude ( ah i mean max povered troopers 13-26 dmg )
3) using hellfires or assautl bots here inmpossible
* before update than reapers had more HP than i can kill it in 30%-50% times

and i think for full restore it must cost 250-300 (maybe more i am not sure) manna .... becase it can heal any unit
and for eaxample commander pay 110 manna only for 250 healing atm 250 healing mean notfing maybe make an 500 for commander.....

[Shadowcloud]

This might be slightly off-topic, but since it is true that artifacts are part of the problem with the long freeze duration, it might be interesting to offer two different deathmatch modes: One where artifacts are allowed and another where they arent.

DM players may eat me now alive.

[Sonntagshut]

and i think for full restore it must cost 250-300 (maybe more i am not sure) manna .... becase it can heal any unit
and for eaxample commander pay 110 manna only for 250 healing atm 250 healing mean notfing maybe make an 500 for commander.....

Hm I don't know if it is possible, but making it for example like every 200hp of the targets maxhp healed will cost 50 energy would perhaps adjust the cost. (so lc heal would use all energy available usually).


This might be slightly off-topic, but since it is true that artifacts are part of the problem with the long freeze duration, it might be interesting to offer two different deathmatch modes: One where artifacts are allowed and another where they arent.

DM players may eat me now alive.

Well, I think without the individual artifact compositions available, DM would be rather boring i suppose, as the game has few units, but through the artifacts has its own way to bring in more different tactics. Taking them out is not a question I think, but perhaps reduce the max +duration you can get for freeze by changing some artifacts or exchanging the skill in the tree to something "equal".

[Suck]

I think part of the issue is that it means a lot more now to fully heal a unit than it did when they had far fewer hitpoints. Because damage was not scaled with the hitpoints, it completely changed the dynamic of the game. Anything that does percentages now (i.e. Harvesters 40% self-heal or high priest 100% holy shock heal) is much more powerful than it was previously.

Holy shock may need a cost and/or cooldown adjustment. Or... *gets ready to be burned for heresy*... high priests may have far too much mana in the first place, and need to have their maximum pool lowered.


-Grant.

[CoolDown]

The FrostShock is no problem WHEN we habe unitformation! all units stand by the lord and all was shocked so its too hard.

[DunkleSeele]

I think part of the issue is that it means a lot more now to fully heal a unit than it did when they had far fewer hitpoints. Because damage was not scaled with the hitpoints, it completely changed the dynamic of the game. Anything that does percentages now (i.e. Harvesters 40% self-heal or high priest 100% holy shock heal) is much more powerful than it was previously.

Holy shock may need a cost and/or cooldown adjustment. Or... *gets ready to be burned for heresy*... high priests may have far too much mana in the first place, and need to have their maximum pool lowered.


-Grant.

it would be stupid to increase the instant heal cooldown, 12 seconds are enough and to much for coop, increase the mana cost from 80 to 120 or 150.

[DanteOne]

40% heal for a harvester cost how much? you see the relation? the harv can only heal 1 single time for 40%. he doesnt have more mana. the holy shock heals 100% for just 80power and just 12secs cooldown. i think the best solution for this would be to lower the highpriest power pool.

he should only have enough power to cast 2 things, like master/lc.
i think good numbers would be like this:

Holy shock 100power
Freeze 150power
Maximum power of HP 300

[DunkleSeele]

40% heal for a harvester cost how much? you see the relation? the harv can only heal 1 single time for 40%. he doesnt have more mana. the holy shock heals 100% for just 80power and just 12secs cooldown. i think the best solution for this would be to lower the highpriest power pool.

he should only have enough power to cast 2 things, like master/lc.
i think good numbers would be like this:

Holy shock 100power
Freeze 150power
Maximum power of HP 300

[DunkleSeele]

then plz give the highpriest the same amount of dmg like the master and commander and hitpoints. if you decrease the mana pool to 300 he isnt worth to be called a caster.

[Garand]

Hm I was going to propose higher cooldown and mana cost for the shock,but that will screw pve a bit. Hm maybe reduced heal - instead of insta 100% let's say 50-60%.
Or if it is possible to make the ability heal a target over an ammount of time instead of instant restoration. Pretty much like the surgeon's mend ,without the requireing the caster to stand still and "mend" the unit.

[Sonntagshut]

instead of insta 100% let's say 50-60%.


Except for Jack in safari, I wouldn't see where 60% wouldn't be enough for healing LC in coop. Would probably just kill tanking ability of tribes alot I guess.

[DanteOne]

one more time:

ITS
ABOUT
DM

[Garand]

Jack in safari..give me a break . Even 1 (one) player can beat the map hands down on hard.

With 60% you will have to heal your brutes/horrors earlier to achieve the effect you achieve now - practically it increases the mana cost for full healing sligthly less than double.

The game is about DM and COOP. There should be balance between both

[DanteOne]

pvp is harder to balance than pve. just adjust jack.
but what to adjust if the healing is too much? make complete cult-faction doing more dmg?

and i think the game is 30% COOP and 70% DM
once u have played all COOP on hardcore, u have to wait for more maps for new challenges, but a human enemy is always a challenge.

[DanteOne]

then plz give the highpriest the same amount of dmg like the master and commander and hitpoints. if you decrease the mana pool to 300 he isnt worth to be called a caster.

well the power pool of the master allows him to cast just 2 spells. not more. why has the high priest more power with nearly equal dmg + holy aura?

[DunkleSeele]

well the power pool of the master allows him to cast just 2 spells. not more. why has the high priest more power with nearly equal dmg + holy aura?

the dmg isnt nearly equal...