View Full Version : The Gathering Mod
This is a mod that i've been harnessing for a while, its got one of the, to me, most essential changes of all-> economy. These where features that i wanted right from the first time i played, and thus i modded and made it happen. I've been tweaking it for some time now, day by day, slowly as it goes, and yesterday a recent post in the general forum, made me think maybe it was time to post it. ;)
This mod is essentially a recollection of everything that we have around the forum... and more, my own little tweaks.(like the economic ones)
one of the first things i wanted when i started playing was to revamp the historical setting of KoH making it more accurate, also adding extra units, etc.
To my surprise, our great modder elvain had already gone down that path and gave us a great 'expansion' to the game. so thanks go to him for his work in that part of the mod.
Also, Laudan spent quite some time tweaking the ai difficulty, making it harder, amking the game harder as he could. And also adding some great maps and sceneries to the table.
thanks go t him for ideas and upgrades on that.
In essence i also gathered some other thoughts and fixes of other mods, i remember this one mod that focused a lot more on battles(which i wanted to take into the game), and gave me a direction on how-where to tweak the ai into making the game a bit tougher, militarily. :)
I hope you enjoy the mod, i believe the file has everything it needs, but ill check back if necessary. this pack comes bundled with all the necessary files+pakman, so u can unzip all the original ones prior to playing, making it a all-in-one pack. ;)
http://files.filefront.com/the+gathering11zip/;12141721;/fileinfo.html 1.1 new one, with many additions/changes
http://files.filefront.com/the+gathering+103zip/;12142257;/fileinfo.html 1.0.3 the old original (version with minor economic additions/changes and fixes, and map fixes)
http://rapidshare.com/files/126612102/the_gathering_1.0.zip.html 1.0 (first original)
HARD economic patch ^^:
http://files.filefront.com/HARD+economic+patchzip/;12142110;/fileinfo.html (first of its kind)
This is how i play -enjoy.
Further Notes:
The gameplay is much tougher now, though a lot more balanced, i recommend that u play on hard(even if you are new) and if you can, turn off the 'battle pause' mode.
If you are a solo guy like me, you will have to rethink that strategy, alliances a more important than ever, and so are the forgotten trade agreements. The ai will team up against others and pose a much more serious threat, everyone is a potential enemy, and they will attack you anytime, for any reason the see fit(more realistically, and they are not there to play games... but to conquer your provinces -watch out!).
The economic part has major changes, everything is much more on par with how the middle ages really where. In theory, provided you had the cash you could build a Colosseum with Italian marble, in Iceland.(though probably wouldn't happen) so trading is a big part of the game now and its really essential to the strategic level.
Also everything is tweaked in order to help the ai be, and be able to build the scariest cities ever.(you'll see them by end game), I've been tweaking everything in that scenarios slowly to get it more to the point where i want it to be... An actual challenging ai.
It wont take it easy on you, so don't expect it to. if you like sitting back and conquering territories through diplomacy and espionage, you'll also love this one. I feel everything is much more realistic now, and all these endeavors are a much more challenging and serious business, but also, possibly much more rewarding.
Anything else is up to you. I'll be tweaking the mod more as it grows on me, but don't expect new versions anytime soon, this is a s-l-o-w process. i been playing KoH for some long time now, and i finally think that the game is good.(almost where i want it, considering the limitations).
I hope i got all the files in there, and feel free to post coments. :go:
INSTALLATION:
first, unzip pakman to your main KoH directory>
run it, and click on the button 'open' in the top-right corner(it will open a list of the paks in the game, if not... go to KoH\packs and find them there)
1.click on the pak named 'defs', it will open a list of the files inside of it. click on the list with the right mouse button and select...
'extract all files' > 'to original directory(ies)' .
it will unzip the contents of it to your main directory ;)
2.next open the 'europe' pak and do the same(extract to original directory).
3.follow that process with the following files(provided you got the 1.05 patch installed):
images, screens, screens.pk1, text, units, units.pk1.
4. after all the original files are in place... you can simply unzip the content inside the gathering folder(inside the gathering 1.0.zip) to the original directory. or! do what it do, i unzip the full gathering folder to the KoH directory, then just copy the content inside of it(folders defs,images,maps,text) to the original KoH directory(where you installed the game).
*NEW*5. IF YOU WANT TO INSTALL THE ECONOMIC PATCH(which makes the game -a lot tougher, money wise) apply it last, since it will overwrite essential files. ^^b
thats all folks! :D
Could you give us a step-by-step order of installing the mod and starting a game? I think I messed something up while trying to make it work just by myself. -.-
I was wondering in comparsion to lets say Holy Rome does this mod add the same stuff + a refined economical play or is it a completely different mod with all new materials, countries, units and such?
this looks VERY interesting.. could you be please more specific about the economic changes you did?
I will surely check it and at least compare with my mod, but still if you could describe it, it would be fine
i've added an installation instruction to the main post, due to popular demand.
anyone is welcome to post comments if it doesnt work out for them or if they find it excessive.
well i get many changes and ideas that elvain brought, but i took them to another level and removed a few things that i diddnt like. maybe my mod is a little more arcade then his :).
overall, you are bound to see the same units and country changes from holy roman, and many changes to the way things work economically. now resources belong to a kingdom, not a province.(so if you got horses somewhere, you can build stables for horse units anywhere. which was an obvious concept to me but the game was limiting).
everything is more open economic-wise, resources are more important, and the bonuses for having trade agreements, valuables, etc... are a bit sharper.
overall the ai plays very different(its not fulling around, attacking your countryside while you build up an army in your main castle. if they can take you down... they will, switfly).
also, a few of Laudans idea(specially over the way tax work) where added, with a clear copy from his takes on it.
like i said, this mod is meant to be a gathering of ideas and other mods, and this is the way i play. initially i wanted a tougher game, with a more open economic setting(and thus realistic) and i think its nearly there. suggestions are greatly appreciated.
so... if i wasnt clear enough, one of the main things(and one of the first changes) is that, horses, wine, marble, hides, etc... are all tradable resources now.
maybe this makes getting kingdom advantages easier, in a way.
but since i dont really play to get the kingdom victory, but rather to play until the end game, then its no issue and the realisticness of it, plus other factual benefits are great appeal to me.
even small kingdoms are capable of being strong now.
all in all, i would say: check it out! you will notice smaller changes here and there, that are insignificant, BUT make a considerable difference in the end. ;)
and to elvain, essentially i took most of your buildings/economic changes away(i had mine and kept some ideas you gave) and kept, for the most part, everything else. i believe.
cheers lads,
and keep the questions and responses coming if needed.
I must say I'm intrigued by your mod and I must say I love the concept, that said I would love to see a more elegant display in the choice menu with all the pins and names on their rightful spot and with finished text (don't know your skills in the department though, mine is none exsisting), and I would also like to see more accurate countries(you could add the livonian order and remove Prussia, add a small history to curions and such).
Your take on the economical play is brilliant, don't change it might need some tweaking though haven't played it enough yet to know.
I would love to see you continue your work and release patches and upgrades, especially if you could make/find someone skilled enough to make new icons and alter the units appreance a bit to get a better feel of them beeing diffrent from the one already in the game( i.e make mameluk infantry look diffrent from saracens etc.)
Also it would be fun if you could add unite events such as kalmar union
KingJohn
3 Jul 2008, 21:49
I have been playing this MOD and I think I may have found a bug.
The TAX system.
I bswitch to find out why ai countries were getting high incomes. They were getting large tax reciepts (100 +) where as mine was -6. I think they were automaticallt on a high tax setting even though the option for high tax has been removed from the game.
I also tried dropping my tax rate from normal to nothing and my tax revenues went up!
Any ideas whats causing this?
@ruga
well lad, honestly pretty much all(if not all) of my historical/unit changes(with a few tweaks on the units part) come from elvain's mod, and as he updates his ill update mine too. but, since you named the places you want changed... ill look into it.
also i think that the reason why the 'pins' are misplaced is because there is no space for them(the country names) on their rightful province. i dont know any other reason for that.
-maybe elvain can give me a hand there cause i've no idea what to do.
and about the units, i dont know how to edit their actual in game sprites, only their battle icons, i dont think anyone has a tool for that atm... =/
@kingjohn
thats the idea.
you have full investments, and no investments.
when you switched to no investments you stopped putting money into your towns, but you also lost some happiness in the provinces since now you are not investing on them ;).
is that what happened?
ill check it out more clearly, though...
they get high income probably because they use merchants a lot and build proper taxing structures like the tax colector's office or market, etc...
also, like i said, the number of trade agreements/valuables/friendliness with other nations, will always influence a lot of things in game.
ps: you should get a -5 happiness penalty in game when u set it to no investment.
and also, i believe its a good thing that the ai has more cash then you ;) (but ill look into it).
thanks for the comments/suggestions guys, ill look into it asap. :)
KingJohn
3 Jul 2008, 22:27
@kingjohn
thats the idea.
you have full investments, and no investments.
when you switched to no investments you stopped putting money into your towns, but you also lost some happiness in the provinces since now you are not investing on them ;).
is that what happened?
ill check it out more clearly, though...
they get high income probably because they use merchants a lot and build proper taxing structures like the tax colector's office or market, etc...
also, like i said, the number of trade agreements/valuables/friendliness with other nations, will always influence a lot of things in game.
ps: you should get a -5 happiness penalty in game when u set it to no investment.
and also, i believe its a good thing that the ai has more cash then you ;) (but ill look into it).
thanks for the comments/suggestions guys, ill look into it asap. :)
Hi, Poster,
I alway maximise tax income but most was coming from town tribute not tax. tax was -6 despite hsving tax offices and markets etc. When I bsswitch, they are getting 100+ income in the tax income bracket and both the no tax and normal tax icons were not selected. If I select the normal tax icon it their tax income drops to the same kind of level as mine.
Great I'll comment more when I've gotten a better feel of the mod, how the Ai handels down the road etc.:go:
But for know I am thankful that you'll look in to it and would be eternally grateful if you spruced up the icons and fixed those minor irritating things :D
Hi, Poster,
I always maximize tax income but most was coming from town tribute not tax. tax was -6 despite having tax offices and markets etc. When I bsswitch, they are getting 100+ income in the tax income bracket and both the no tax and normal tax icons were not selected. If I select the normal tax icon it their tax income drops to the same kind of level as mine.
true! thanks laddie.
anyways here is what you do:
go to the defs/misc folder and open econst.in2 with notepad.
search for the following term "Tax4 = 100", you will see something like this:
Tax0 = -3
Tax1 = -9
Tax2 = 0
Tax3 = 0
Tax4 = 100
WarTaxesPerVillager = 5
WarTaxesRecoveryTime = 300000
comment out the tax2,3,4 as shown.
Tax0 = -3
Tax1 = -9
;Tax2 = 0
;Tax3 = 0
;Tax4 = 100
WarTaxesPerVillager = 5
WarTaxesRecoveryTime = 300000
it will solve the issue for now, i believe.
i might include that into the file after i look into what ruga was suggesting.
Though, if you ask me... it fine the way it is, i do believe the ai should have more money, ups the difficulty.
though that will solve your issue(or at least it seems).
but i still recommend playing without it for the time being.
more money for the ai>more armies >more buildings>greater challenge. ;)
ill give it some test and thought.
so far all my games with the mod have been challenging,at least to some extent, now i know one of the factors is something i wasn't aware of, but good to know.
thanks again.
edit:btw, just so you know. that tax system change is something i got from Laudan, so i might end up tweaking it later on.(as in maybe do give the ai a boost, but not such an unfair one... we'll see... like i said as of now i think the game is pretty cool).
EDIT2!: found a more elegant solution ill upload either the file and/or the updated pack later on. Laudan had left some gaps in his programing, so i fixed it by commenting out the existence of the 'double tax button' on the screens part of defs. ;)
i have a question for kingjohn:
did the rich kingdoms have vassals?
because thats what tax4 stands for i believe.
and maybe thats why they where so rich.
because after playing with everything for a while... it seems that, beyond that the tax difference isnt that huge. except for the countries that DO have vassals ;).
the solution above will easy the game for you anyway, but ill look more into it. maybe change this system all together.
also, can u post me a link of the software you are using to track the binary issues? bsswitch?
bsswitch is built into the game. There is a procedure you follow to type the command ad switch places with ai.
I might have found a bug or maybe I'm just not thorough enough, but I can't find the building that produces Statues...Which one should it be??
darn, sorry Ruga, this was something i was tweaking/implementing but apparently wasnt finished yet. :P
anyways, i uploaded the update, it contains a new tax feature, a few fixed texts and minor things to get the requested economic problems fixed.
hope you guys like it and keep checking for bugs.
thanks for the support guys, when i got a little more time to give into it ill check the other things that Ruga said, for now its just a small bugfixing patch. ;)
cheers
KingJohn
4 Jul 2008, 11:56
i have a question for kingjohn:
did the rich kingdoms have vassals?
because thats what tax4 stands for i believe.
and maybe thats why they where so rich.
because after playing with everything for a while... it seems that, beyond that the tax difference isnt that huge. except for the countries that DO have vassals ;).
the solution above will easy the game for you anyway, but ill look more into it. maybe change this system all together.
also, can u post me a link of the software you are using to track the binary issues? bsswitch?
Vassal income would be under vassal income/tribute afaik. It was under the tax income section. As I said, as soon as normal settings are selected the tax income fell to -4 or something similar to mine. It is a bit confusing, I could not find any way to make my tax income increase by a similar amount or anywhere near.
I was susing bsswitch to check the AI's income.
did you download the newest version?
Well, it still didn't work for me, the country selection map's messed up and there's three taxation modes instead of two.
yes, its supposed to have 3 taxation modes, its a new addition. and about the country selection map, i said earlier that i don't really know a fix for it. :(
i think its like that because the province lacks physical space to display the name, but im not sure.
try the 3 tax modes, i include fixed descriptions on the text to display what they do.
yes, its supposed to have 3 taxation modes, its a new addition. and about the country selection map, i said earlier that i don't really know a fix for it. :(
i think its like that because the province lacks physical space to display the name, but im not sure.
try the 3 tax modes, i include fixed descriptions on the text to display what they do.
huh! Well, thanks for clarifying things, nice to know it's not just me :))
and about the country selection map, i said earlier that i don't really know a fix for it. :(I think Elvain found out how to make a normal selection map. Perhaps look in his Holy Rome thread or search in old posts on the subject.
how is the map messed?
in kingdomnamepos.in2 you can tweak the coordinates of names, I think this is the way. Or did you also add some provinces or something? (sorry, didn't have time to test your mod out yet)
uploaded the file version with map fixes, descriptions and, again minor changes.
this time text changes. ;)
when i got more time ill look into the deeper issues. :)
enjoy guys.
I like the gameplay flowing in Gathering. Warfare's more dynamic, way better chance to help a town in siege in time. More building upgrades rather then new buildings - good and well done, as those local resourses independant buildings like masonry or taylor shop (it would be nice to have even more of them) fit in the free tiles. KAs are easier to archive, but it's mostly all right, as it works for AI too.
The weak point once again is money. With so many Cathedrals, Merchant guilds and Universities available they mast be downgraded drastically. The amount of money (and books) you can make in a medium-sized kingdom is ridiculous. It sort of defies the need of taxation options as well as the wartime tax.
im thinking about this... see, i wanted the ai and you to have loads of money i think its great for the game in an overall and good for the ai too(specially the money-managing incompetent ai). though... you do have a point there. atm im thinking about it some, next week prob ill settle for a little play a long-many hours game and maybe rethink a few things, perhaps change a few establishments and possibly add the changes ruga had suggested.(if i can do all of that :D ).
thanks for the replies, they are immensely appreciated and contribute a lot to the future of this mod.
cheers
and I would also like to see more accurate countries(you could add the livonian order and remove Prussia, add a small history to curions and such).
Also it would be fun if you could add unite events such as kalmar union
i dont see how that can be possible(the livonian part), see the idea in the 1200 scenario is that the Teutonic order(and associates) hasn't yet conquered prussia, since the date says ~around 1200. otherwise it would be just teutonic order all the way down, like it is in the 1300 scenario. And the livonian order is part of the teutonic order, so it wouldn't make sense to make another country for it(imagine them waging war on one another :eek: ?).
also, the kalmar union is basically your king inheriting all of these kingdoms at once and other sort of alliances being made. That's not possible inside KoH, as is.
What i can do however is make a conquest unite event, where is any of the 3 other kingdoms conquer the given area, they form the kalmar union(i woudnt mind adding that, i loove unite events :) ). Though that wouldn't be factual, nor even corespondent to the actual union, so :rolleyes:... should i add it?
anyways, beyond that, i fixed the curionian description, it will follow in mine next patch that will include new economic taxation, on the lines of the latest suggestions, for you guys to test. :D
cheers lads.
i dont see how that can be possible(the livonian part), see the idea in the 1200 scenario is that the Teutonic order(and associates) hasn't yet conquered prussia, since the date says ~around 1200. otherwise it would be just teutonic order all the way down, like it is in the 1300 scenario. And the livonian order is part of the teutonic order, so it wouldn't make sense to make another country for it(imagine them waging war on one another :eek: ?).
also, the kalmar union is basically your king inheriting all of these kingdoms at once and other sort of alliances being made. That's not possible inside KoH, as is.
What i can do however is make a conquest unite event, where is any of the 3 other kingdoms conquer the given area, they form the kalmar union(i woudnt mind adding that, i loove unite events :) ). Though that wouldn't be factual, nor even corespondent to the actual union, so :rolleyes:... should i add it?
Well the game isn't entirely historical as is (there wasn't any real chance of uniting the roman empire, Russia was formed in the last years of the 1300 hundreds(unofficially) and the tsardom came in to be under Ivan IV, I was actually hoping for a unite event, FYI the livonian order(livonian confederacy) was a vassal of the teutons and existed as a nation.
Well the game isn't entirely historical as is (there wasn't any real chance of uniting the roman empire, Russia was formed in the last years of the 1300 hundreds(unofficially) and the tsardom came in to be under Ivan IV, I was actually hoping for a unite event, FYI the livonian order(livonian confederacy) was a vassal of the teutons and existed as a nation.
the Rome quest is made by me and is done only to add more challenge (new goal which never was fulfilled, but always was desired) and has nothing to do with "historical accurancy"
the Rome quest is made by me and is done only to add more challenge (new goal which never was fulfilled, but always was desired) and has nothing to do with "historical accurancy"
I didn't mean anything bad by it(I merely used it to show that the game itself + the mod community doesn't always follow history or any plausible outcome of it).
i finally was able to find the time and upload the new version 1.1-test, its marker -test for testing, as in -this beta version is out for you guys to play with and checkout and gimme a response to it, at how the feel of the game changed. so we can all keep moving in the direction of addressing the few issues maks stated a few posts back.
so basically:
-new tax system
-new countries
- no new units for the new countries... :( i really wanted to add new units for the livonian establishments, but according to elvain it cant be done considering the current state of the mod(already too many new units), so i just gave it up after making a patch that turns the game into crashfest...
so enjoy, and keep up the feedback
Looks like the Livonian order in Late has the same flag as Teutonian order - not the Livonian brotherhood's one.
yes, its intended to be that way.
when they where assimilated into the order, that happened.
essentially, the brotherhood and the order are totally different nations.
My first impressions of the gathering 1.1 is that I like the changes, the Ai is much better now, I haven't seen any bugs and the whole game feels much harder and nicer now, a few quick questions though:
1.As I am playing as an italian state, is there any unite events for them?
2.Did you add a unite kalmar union or not?
3.Will you continue developing the mod?
Awesome work keep it up!
I've seen AI uniting Kalmar Union.
Is this mod continued?
Good Job by the way.
My first impressions of the gathering 1.1 is that I like the changes, the Ai is much better now, I haven't seen any bugs and the whole game feels much harder and nicer now, a few quick questions though:
1.As I am playing as an italian state, is there any unite events for them?
2.Did you add a unite kalmar union or not?
3.Will you continue developing the mod?
Awesome work keep it up!
1.yes, there are many... and a few non-historical ones too, to make things interesting.
just go around conquering the world and you'll see... ;)
2. yes the kalmar is there, like maks said. and i love its addition btw. (thanks for the input).
3.indeed, im just waiting for the feedback, since im planing on making it ever tougher in many ways, while retaining a bit of 'the money must flow' idea. :p
gtg now, ill finish my post once i get home
to be continued..
[QUOTE=poster;10766]
3.indeed, im just waiting for the feedback, since im planing on making it ever tougher in many ways, while retaining a bit of 'the money must flow' idea. :p
QUOTE]
I played with your mod and think its good, but i changed some things of it for myself:
1) I used the difficulty settings of laudans HARD MOD
2) The idea of buildings costing food is good, but i saw that there were several provinces who had a minus food production. It don't like that because if a 1 province kingdom has such a province, it means they cannot create squads there => no defence and easy capture of the town.
3) I made the fletcher, swordsmith, spearmaker and 1/2 military building cost nothing.
the upgrade of these costs gold instead of food.
Now instead of a minus food production, you can build so that a province at least cant create/lose food.
[QUOTE=poster;10766]
3.indeed, im just waiting for the feedback, since im planing on making it ever tougher in many ways, while retaining a bit of 'the money must flow' idea. :p
QUOTE]
I played with your mod and think its good, but i changed some things of it for myself:
1) I used the difficulty settings of laudans HARD MOD
2) The idea of buildings costing food is good, but i saw that there were several provinces who had a minus food production. It don't like that because if a 1 province kingdom has such a province, it means they cannot create squads there => no defence and easy capture of the town.
3) I made the fletcher, swordsmith, spearmaker and 1/2 military building cost nothing.
the upgrade of these costs gold instead of food.
Now instead of a minus food production, you can build so that a province at least cant create/lose food.
strange, if u look at my buildings.in2
example: [halberd master]
req = spear master
cost = 500s, 2000g
override = spear master
siegedefencebonus = 5
;base_bonus = -2f
i marked out the -food changes that elvain has proposed in his mod, so...
maybe you installed it ontop of other mods and everything is weird now.
i recommend a fresh install.
and also, i do believe that my difficulty settings are tougher then laudan's and much more objective... but ill check that out once more. ;)
---
now finishing my post,
well for future updates i intend to push the difficulty of the game further, maybe even by introducing innovative factors, like modification of costs and drawback(open to suggestions btw), but ill do that slowly. right now im just giving it some thought, while you guys play it and tell me about your reflections over the many hours of play.
:go:
cheers.
Sultan Osman I
15 Aug 2008, 17:58
IŽll try it. After trying Laudans mod this one will be not much different than his
ok, so after sooooo long i finally made another addition to the mod.
I call it, the 'hard economic patch'. beware of this bugger, it might give you a few nightmares... :P everything is halved, and i mean it.
originally i thought also about implementing new buildings, ones that would allow specializing;
like say you want a province that only returns gold, or that only returns food.
these new buildings would takeway say gold, and give you more ~say... food.
overall i would put it in context with the possibilities of the middle ages and i thought everything would be fine...
Though, that would take some real time to make...
and since i havent got much time to mod lately, this is all i've been able to come up with.
even changes in the difficulty settings where made, the game should be harder now.
so, due to popular demand, here it is... the economic mod, inside the gathering universe.
:)
to install this bugger just apply my mod, then the new patch.
enjoy guys
cheers
:)