View Full Version : Two Constantinoples
To be more exact, two Byzantium-like behaviouring states. The period is "early". It started when Fatimids conquered Nicea and then lost their heirless king. Nicea became independent and soon gained power and eventually got rivals with Byzantium, mostly at war with them.
When I proclaimed Church independence, Byzantium declared war on me. And so did Nicea, for the very same reason. During the campaign against them both, I found a curious glitch in their relationships. Despite them being at war with each other, whenever I attacked one of them, my relations with the other state hadn't been improving at all. As if the system didn't recognised them as separate states at this point. (I'm still a noob, though, and maybe there were some other reasons for this.)
Glitch or not, two World Orthodox faith protecting states is a curious case for me.
Have you tried switching to the second - Nicea and see if it has the same special units as Byzantia?
No, didn't thought of it. Save's lost, too.
I think this situation's easily repeatable, though - for curious' sake.
the fact is that both Byzantia and Nicaea have to be hardcoded to be leaders of Orthodox dependent churces
Generaly the probability of those 2 states to coexist at the same time is very low, but it could be possible. To answer why it happens I can only say that Byzantia leads Orthodox church in 2 eras and Nicaea leads it in the high era and I haven't found any file that would define it, so I think it is somehow hardcoded
It turned out to be possible.
I wonder what will happen if Nicaea gets converted into non-orthodox faith before it gains independence.
It turned out to be possible.
I wonder what will happen if Nicaea gets converted into non-orthodox faith before it gains independence.
nothing, the "constantinople function" is not tied to a province of Constantinople or Nicaea, but to an empire (or kingdom) of Byzantia or Nicaea (that's at least what I suppose)
so when empire (or kingdom) of Nicaea or Byzantia converts to other religion, it should lose this function.
Also I understood that it is hardcoded when I made my own map and there Byzantia and Nicaea were both again leaders of Othodox faith
I see. So, theoretically speaking, if there will be several orthodox Nicaeas (like, revolting, expanding, losing the province, revolting again etc.) each one of them will be Constantinople-bound.
I'm still curious, what's to happen with diplomatic relationships between them.
I had another weird case, this time with catholicism. I'm putting it here, though.
Usually the Popes disappear when someone conquers (or inherits, for that matter) the Papal state. So it looks like the Holy See is dependant on the Papacy. This time was different. One day I payed attention and found out there's no Papacy anymore; instead, there were a new state, called Rome. It seems, they rebelled or got spy-rebelled. However, the Popes didn't siezed to exist. Landless, but not powerless, they even excommunicated this new "Rome" once, some time later.
Meanwhile, "Rome" grew up in strength, became a local power, but later shrank and got completely inherited by another state. Disappearence of this "Rome" (quite predictibly) didn't affected the Holy See one bit. They are still here, declaring crusades, doing stuff.
So, it seems sepatation of the Church from the state is possible in the medieval times :) But it looks like a bug anyways.
I am glad to see someone else has had this happen. I wrote about this in the old SF forum and everyone thought I was making it all up.
Frankoman
21 Nov 2007, 02:20
I had another weird case, this time with catholicism. I'm putting it here, though.
Usually the Popes disappear when someone conquers (or inherits, for that matter) the Papal state. So it looks like the Holy See is dependant on the Papacy. This time was different. One day I payed attention and found out there's no Papacy anymore; instead, there were a new state, called Rome. It seems, they rebelled or got spy-rebelled. However, the Popes didn't siezed to exist. Landless, but not powerless, they even excommunicated this new "Rome" once, some time later.
Meanwhile, "Rome" grew up in strength, became a local power, but later shrank and got completely inherited by another state. Disappearence of this "Rome" (quite predictibly) didn't affected the Holy See one bit. They are still here, declaring crusades, doing stuff.
So, it seems sepatation of the Church from the state is possible in the medieval times :) But it looks like a bug anyways.
I have GOT to recreate that! Does anyone know how? Is there some cheat to switch to the Papacy? If so, I'd do that, and when a rebel springs up I would lure it to towns (I love doing that) then defend it and surrender, then go back to whoever I was and watch Rome grow and be powerful then die from barbarians and corruption, then ironically Byzantium grows O.o
I have GOT to recreate that! Does anyone know how? Is there some cheat to switch to the Papacy? If so, I'd do that, and when a rebel springs up I would lure it to towns (I love doing that) then defend it and surrender, then go back to whoever I was and watch Rome grow and be powerful then die from barbarians and corruption, then ironically Byzantium grows O.o
You can use bsswitch, just like with any other kingdom. You can even start playing with Papacy, it's all good. I tried this a little while ago, but couldn't make it with rebels and had to go.
Frankoman
27 Nov 2007, 05:35
I tried the bsswitch, and it didn't seem to work. bsswitch (Faction Name) is how do you it right?
It's fun to have a rebel in your province. For those who don't know, get a low leveled marshal, and go out next to the rebel. He will follow him to attack, but if you are swift you can run to the town before he gets you. The rebels will still follow, then attack the town. Now those rebels have attacked instead of raiding for a lifetime :D
No, it is by selecting a kingdom you want to change into. to select a kingdom you can select it on the political map. (When the lower GUI is the kingdom ruler , then you have select the kingdom)
Then enter bsswitch.
TaDa~! You have change to the kingdom you want to change~
Frankoman
27 Nov 2007, 22:43
Oh, no wonder it wasn't working :)
I will try that when I get the time :D Thanks :)
And don't forget to turn AI off ("bsnoai")
Mephistopheles
29 Nov 2007, 23:05
Also, enable it for the kingdom you left using "bsai".
and, if you using Mod Hard, you may notice that the tax is , like, not right.
((PS: I always using this since my first win... It is more fun to see a hell of war you made yourself!(I bsswitch to all kingdom and they all declare war to my kingdom...)