View Full Version : Worldshift agains worst foe...
Strezov
14 Sep 2007, 23:10
Hi again, guys :)
I'm a big fan of Black Sea Studios and I personally think that this is the best game studio here in our country. But here comes the BUT.
Now I'm 1% away from loading the new StarCraft 2 terran movie, which appears to be great (Blizzard, of course). The main problem is that I guess when StarCraft 2 is out, there will be no place for other sci-fi strategies and so on. I mean... the Battle.net and so on... and I guess they will be releasing SC2 in celebration of 10 years of SC gaming... and it's a huge enemy for a gaming company (well, steals all the customers, eh?) and I suppose Worldshift would be out somewhere in that period of time.
Have you been thinking about this problem (marketing, PR stuff and so on) and what can you actually do to kick some Blizzard asses ;)
Or this is a dumb question? :rolleyes:
Thanks guys ;)
Best wishes only,
George.
Hi again, guys :)
I'm a big fan of Black Sea Studios and I personally think that this is the best game studio here in our country. But here comes the BUT.
Now I'm 1% away from loading the new StarCraft 2 terran movie, which appears to be great (Blizzard, of course). The main problem is that I guess when StarCraft 2 is out, there will be no place for other sci-fi strategies and so on. I mean... the Battle.net and so on... and I guess they will be releasing SC2 in celebration of 10 years of SC gaming... and it's a huge enemy for a gaming company (well, steals all the customers, eh?) and I suppose Worldshift would be out somewhere in that period of time.
Have you been thinking about this problem (marketing, PR stuff and so on) and what can you actually do to kick some Blizzard asses ;)
Or this is a dumb question? :rolleyes:
Thanks guys ;)
Best wishes only,
George.
BSS was horrible at releasing KoH, they released it when a game properly marketed coming from a company most strategy gamers loved (Total War series) with a similar genre to KoH, KoH recieved no marketing and was released when Rome: TW came out, now Worldshift is going to be the same problem, it's being released at the time as a largely unknown company when SC2 is being released by Blizzard, makers of many popular games. With no marketing to back up WS, WS does not stand a chance.
Strezov
14 Sep 2007, 23:52
Okay, KoH rocks, Rome:TW sucks, I guess I don't even know what's the company that made Rome... o-0
But Blizzard... even the fact and the name "Star Craft" will call thousands to the stores ;)
Okay, KoH rocks, Rome:TW sucks, I guess I don't even know what's the company that made Rome... o-0
But Blizzard... even the fact and the name "Star Craft" will call thousands to the stores ;)
I'm afraid, Rome:TW does not suck, just because it defeated KoH.
RM:TW had several things that increased sales:
- 3-D graphics
- Marketing
- Trusted company
KoH had none of these traits, and did not try to advertise the game. SC2 or Blizzard does not suck, they are good game and company respectively, so is Total war series. Just because BSS does not know when to release the games or with proper adveristing, doesn't mean these games aren't good.
BSS doesn't release games - they're the developers, they make the games. The releasing and advertising part belongs to the producers (and distributors, eventually) - in KoH's case, that was Sunflowers... :rolleyes:
But in Worldshift's case, keep in mind that absolutely no PR campaign could ever make WS more popular than SC if they're released in the same time. It's like comparing David with Goliath, with the only exception that things in the real world don't work like in the Bible. So, the best options are two - release WS before Starcraft 2 or at least 1/2 to 1 year after it (which would also mean more time for improving WS, of course)...
I think it's better to do it after... look what are the main complaints in SC and if possible don't make the same faults, then only thing you need is to leave a word somewhere where all those who buy SC go for information... and wait for self-advertising :D
Pericle
15 Sep 2007, 14:32
Guys, stop with the pessimism. There is only one thing that can make WS a failure, and that is the game itself.
If the game will be great, there is no need for PR/Marketing or anything else. It will succeed by itself. If you want to sell 10 million copies then you have to be Blizzard.
Thing is that if the game is appealing, in time it will grow a whole lot. It really does not matter that SC 2 will be launched around the same time.
The game will have a steady fanbase and if it's about multiplayer, this game can grow to millions.
Guys, stop with the pessimism. There is only one thing that can make WS a failure, and that is the game itself.
If the game will be great, there is no need for PR/Marketing or anything else. It will succeed by itself. If you want to sell 10 million copies then you have to be Blizzard.
Thing is that if the game is appealing, in time it will grow a whole lot. It really does not matter that SC 2 will be launched around the same time.
The game will have a steady fanbase and if it's about multiplayer, this game can grow to millions.
No, I have to disagree.
You are far too optimistic, KoH was a great game but it did not succeed. If you go to a website like IGN or Gamespot, you will see that any recent news on SC2 will be in the front page, is that the same with WC? It isn't, because the game is not well known and it's fanbase is not as large as SC's. I have to agree with NikeBG, BSS should release WC after 1/2 - year after SC2, maybe even a whole year. WC can be improved in the meanwhile, and perhaps BSS could find a producer that would help with the marketing strategy?
Richard
15 Sep 2007, 22:03
The problem with koh wasn't that it didn't have shiny 3d graphics nor a well known company, The problem was mainly the total lack of marketing outside of Germany, Sf did a terrible job letting the gaming industry know that Koh existed, They ignored North America, the biggest gaming market for god's sake... thus when it was released it sold poorly because it was only known in Germany and some parts of Europe. Adding to the poor publishing the game wasn't beta tested, so even less people got interested.
In my view worldshift can succeed if BSS and the publisher do an excellent job letting the world know that the game is there and is great and it gives more and better things than Starcraft which only gives what every other sci fi rts game out there gives, nothing new.
I wouldn't fear releasing near the same time ScII comes out, the perfect time would be 2 or 3 months after. There are allot of SC fans waiting for something Big and ground breaking and for the looks of it, Starcraft II will leave allot to be desired, graphics don't even look that interesting( the biggest selling point in North American market). Since the Sci fi momentum will built up thx to Blizzard and SC fans, Worldshift can easily come in and take its place among the many disillusioned starcraft fans. But for that to happen Bss and its publisher need to do a good job advertising
Oh, just don't try to go to Korea, they are too addicted to Starcraft, they will like whatever blizzard gives them lol
Pericle
15 Sep 2007, 22:38
Let me tell you something about marketing. It can ruin your game. Why? Because you will try to appeal to everyone, or worst to a certain market (US market for example). The US market can destroy so much of the gameplay games have. KoH is not a game for the US market, because US kids don't play such complex games, they hate RTS.
KoH was a succes in all aspects, you don't need to have 10 million copies sold to be happy, the game was well received. This is what we need with WS! As for StarCraft, its greatest fan base is not in USA, but Korea.
Sometimes is better to stay small so you can keep what made you best.
Strezov
15 Sep 2007, 23:33
KoH was better than anything that comes with the name "Total War" I've ever played. Because of what? Because of the brilliant diplomacy system and all the different and small countries. Damn, in Medieval there was no Bulgaria out there :D
As for StarCraft... maybe I'm a little bit of a Korean guy, but the game would be great (have you seen the RPG moment in the Single Player mode? omg). I will play both SC2 and Worldshift, that's for sure. Even now, when I don't play too much PC games :D 80% of my friends (actually 24 different persons) I've shown the Worldshift website say something like: "WTF man, another StarCraft 2 & Warhammer 30923892385 clone, who actually would bother to play it when it comes to the giant in sci-fi RTS?"
I mean... that's sad. Very sad.
Also, I think that releasing before SC2 would be a better decision - most of the gamers would like to buy it, just to settle up the atmosphere for SC2. And if Worldshift is like KoH, the gamers would love all the emotions, the game gives to them!
Let me tell you something about marketing. It can ruin your game. Why? Because you will try to appeal to everyone, or worst to a certain market (US market for example). The US market can destroy so much of the gameplay games have. KoH is not a game for the US market, because US kids don't play such complex games, they hate RTS.
KoH was a succes in all aspects, you don't need to have 10 million copies sold to be happy, the game was well received. This is what we need with WS! As for StarCraft, its greatest fan base is not in USA, but Korea.
Sometimes is better to stay small so you can keep what made you best.
This has some anti-Americanism, first of all, games are not just for kids so "US kids" are not the only fanbase of the US. Second, RTS games are very popular in the US, why else are they making SC2, AoE, C&C, Halo wars?
The Korean fanbase of SC is very large I admit, but Blizzard is paying lots of money to supply it's American customers as well. Second, "US Marketing" Does not ruin games, only some games makers are stupid enough to put graphics over gameplay to satisify those gamers that think graphics are much more important than gameplay and fun aspects in a game. These gamers that like graphics more than gameplay are not just Americans, but are located all over the world, wherever there is a large gaming market, there are those gamers. If WC were to have those good graphics (Which it does) and good gameplay, then all RTS fans should be satisfied, only some marketing is needed, and by defintion marketing means to market a product, eg. advertising, nothing wrong with contacting gaming magazines, websites etc. to have WC available to everyone.
You are right that a game does not need to sell to be good, but that is not my point. My point is a game needs to sell to be succesfull, if BSS fails to sell alot of copies of WC, then would that encourage them to make another game? Unfortunatly, games are not magically created for free, they need money, so do all the employees, the publisher etc. WC needs to make money, not fun, fun can be created by making a good game, money is made by properly advertising a good game. If WC tried to compete with SC2, it won't stand a chance, Blizzard is a trusted company for many gamers, if I didn't know BSS made good games I would prefer SC2, because I played Warcraft, Starcraft and other RTS games by Blizzard. One last thing you should think about, if WC were to be advertised properly, and it would be a huge hit, don't you think that more people can enjoy BSS' good games? I don't know why you don't want that, BSS could make money and have a larger fanbase.
KoH was better than anything that comes with the name "Total War" I've ever played. Because of what? Because of the brilliant diplomacy system and all the different and small countries. Damn, in Medieval there was no Bulgaria out there :D
As for StarCraft... maybe I'm a little bit of a Korean guy, but the game would be great (have you seen the RPG moment in the Single Player mode? omg). I will play both SC2 and Worldshift, that's for sure. Even now, when I don't play too much PC games :D 80% of my friends (actually 24 different persons) I've shown the Worldshift website say something like: "WTF man, another StarCraft 2 & Warhammer 30923892385 clone, who actually would bother to play it when it comes to the giant in sci-fi RTS?"
I mean... that's sad. Very sad.
Also, I think that releasing before SC2 would be a better decision - most of the gamers would like to buy it, just to settle up the atmosphere for SC2. And if Worldshift is like KoH, the gamers would love all the emotions, the game gives to them!
I love KoH and TW, they are completely different. One of them is RTS, the other is turn-based strategy game. I have to disagree with you by saying one is better than the other, they are both excellent games and are very high quality.
Richard
16 Sep 2007, 05:36
What is wc? :D
Anyways my point is that Ws won't need to compete with Sc. Sc fans have been waiting for almost 10 years, they are waiting for something big, but blizzard will only bring the same game back with a little better graphics. There will be allot of disappointed fans. If they release before SCII they need to do it months before SC comes out (which is very unlikely from what I can see on how far in development are both games) or the large fanbase will just wait for SCII ignoring WS.
Anyways, that's a decision for bss to make, they learned the hard way what bad publishing and poor beta testing brings.
What is wc? :D
Anyways my point is that Ws won't need to compete with Sc. Sc fans have been waiting for almost 10 years, they are waiting for something big, but blizzard will only bring the same game back with a little better graphics. There will be allot of disappointed fans. If they release before SCII they need to do it months before SC comes out (which is very unlikely from what I can see on how far in development are both games) or the large fanbase will just wait for SCII ignoring WS.
Anyways, that's a decision for bss to make, they learned the hard way what bad publishing and poor beta testing brings.
I made the WC mistake, sorry.
I agree, SC2 is looking pretty much the same, only different graphics.
I guess I summed up everything in my previous post:go:
Strezov
16 Sep 2007, 10:25
if I didn't know BSS made good games I would prefer SC2, because I played Warcraft, Starcraft and other RTS games by Blizzard.
That's what I actually meant :)
I agree, SC2 is looking pretty much the same, only different graphics.
I kinda disagree with that. SC2 is offering much new things, especially the roleplaying-shit-when-comes-to-choose-a-single-player-mission. All those new units and stuff and so on and so on... but most of all - don't the core SC2 gamers want SC2 to be just like SC?
I myself want a awesome campaign, I'm fan of single player games with a storyline... that's what I'm waiting for.
Erm... for example, is it REALLY expensive to put a banner in... gamespot for example?
KoH vs. Total War is based on personal preferences. No hard feelings.
Best wishes,
George :)
Pericle
16 Sep 2007, 14:17
This has some anti-Americanism, first of all, games are not just for kids so "US kids" are not the only fanbase of the US. Second, RTS games are very popular in the US, why else are they making SC2, AoE, C&C, Halo wars?
The Korean fanbase of SC is very large I admit, but Blizzard is paying lots of money to supply it's American customers as well. Second, "US Marketing" Does not ruin games, only some games makers are stupid enough to put graphics over gameplay to satisify those gamers that think graphics are much more important than gameplay and fun aspects in a game. These gamers that like graphics more than gameplay are not just Americans, but are located all over the world, wherever there is a large gaming market, there are those gamers. If WC were to have those good graphics (Which it does) and good gameplay, then all RTS fans should be satisfied, only some marketing is needed, and by defintion marketing means to market a product, eg. advertising, nothing wrong with contacting gaming magazines, websites etc. to have WC available to everyone.
You are right that a game does not need to sell to be good, but that is not my point. My point is a game needs to sell to be succesfull, if BSS fails to sell alot of copies of WC, then would that encourage them to make another game? Unfortunatly, games are not magically created for free, they need money, so do all the employees, the publisher etc. WC needs to make money, not fun, fun can be created by making a good game, money is made by properly advertising a good game. If WC tried to compete with SC2, it won't stand a chance, Blizzard is a trusted company for many gamers, if I didn't know BSS made good games I would prefer SC2, because I played Warcraft, Starcraft and other RTS games by Blizzard. One last thing you should think about, if WC were to be advertised properly, and it would be a huge hit, don't you think that more people can enjoy BSS' good games? I don't know why you don't want that, BSS could make money and have a larger fanbase.
I love KoH and TW, they are completely different. One of them is RTS, the other is turn-based strategy game. I have to disagree with you by saying one is better than the other, they are both excellent games and are very high quality.
You have some good points there, sorry if I seemed a bit anti-american, but ussualy games lose a lot of their gameplay when made for the US market. Look at Gothic. I am a long fan of Gothic, and Gothic 3 tried to be more "american" and this has taken some of what was great about Gothic 1&2. They tried to have the graphix of Oblivion and a huge open ended world (what US likes). They did this and lost what made G1 and 2 great.
WS has a fan base thanks to KoH and it will only grow and I am sure that they will sell enough games to cover their expenses. If the game will be as KoH only good things can happen.
I am a long fan of Gothic, and Gothic 3 tried to be more "american" and this has taken some of what was great about Gothic 1&2. They tried to have the graphix of Oblivion and a huge open ended world (what US likes). They did this and lost what made G1 and 2 great.
You're right. I have Gothic II Gold. and when I played Gothic III I sick:bash: because of it graphic (which lagg my computer), and Open-ended. Too Open I might say.
PS: Who do you think will made the Expacksion to Gothic 3? Jowood silent about this. And I don't think Piranha Bytes want to make it, They could be trialed!
wow, is this topic for advertising other games? (most of which I haven't even heard of...)
Back to the topic - I'm not a fan of Star Craft at all, but I too am concerned about that.
Let's just hope that, WS will break through and find a good place on the market...
Strezov
17 Sep 2007, 21:25
You haven't heard of Age of Empires, Star Craft, Medieval: Total War or Gothic? o-0
Well, I haven't seen the last two, at least...
I just didn't read the entire thread...
Well, I haven't seen the last two, at least...
I just didn't read the entire thread...
Total War and Gothic? I have never heard of Gothic until I saw someone's signature on these boards...
jediguardian
21 Sep 2007, 23:52
I am a big fan of SC since I begun playing video games. I will definately buy the collectors' edition of SC2(if there is one). But WS has some new things to offer and is very innovative. I don't see a reason which stops me from playing both games.
redmanz
16 Feb 2008, 11:58
I am living in the US. I have one of those limited keys that everyone has been talking about. I am thinking along the same lines as Carbon. I would just like if you do not lump all together. I find that kind of offensive.
I have spent the better part of my life playing all sorts of games and all kinds of platforms. I like WS; I think the graphics and story line are unique and well thought out. As far as SC2, battlenet is the biggest threat because let’s face it. You can only play through the single player missions so much.
I remember what made SC so popular was other avid games editing maps and making their own missions. I remember downloading new user made content and playing multiplayer way more than the game. So if WS focuses on working on those graphics and getting lag issues banged out they will be a strong competitor.
Please do not flame me, I am just asking for a little more none stereotyping. Everyone is entitled to their opinions, but come on just because you heard America this and that. Do not believe in the rumors, I spend my life breaking down boundaries put up by our U.S. isolationistic ideas.
I now have friends all over the world and I can honestly say I have never found any of the rumors about any countries true. Go out talk and keep an open mind. You would be amazed at how much you say just because you heard and you never bothered to check the references of your source. I look forward to beta testing WS and adding my views and ideas to the mix.
CycloneJack
12 Mar 2008, 15:55
You have to remember two big facts. One, WS is in Beta. Two, SC2 is still Pre-Alpha. We will be lucky to see SC2 by Q4 09. If WS ships sometime during summer, they will have a full year before the threat of SC2 hits, which is plenty of time to bring in some revenue.
WS is coming together to be a really good game, and I think it will do very well. It has a good story, great graphics, and adds enough cool new features to stay afloat in the RTS arena. Personally, I plan on getting both WS and SC2, as well as any new RTS Relic may come out with. ;)