Holy Rome mod 1.8 beta

[elvain]

The mod isn't fully finished. But I think that those who know my work and can believe me it really is palyable (but with higher danger of loss) so you can download it since now

There will be some more changes, even in the mapchanges pack, but not the most important ones. The same in the mod.

What isn't done now is list of changes and some details (I'm not decided yet about adding of some new buildings (such as "master fletcher" - upgrade of fletcher - for crossbows and longbows, "madrase" and "zawiya" as special muslim buildings - if those will be added, hospital will become specificaly christian building)

But I would like to see some feedback to make the final version as perfect as possible

Important - How to play with HR 1.8 beta
unless you use only mapchanges
1) be carefull before declaring war to any kingdom. Better try to isolate them from their allies. Especialy once you have more than 4 provinces.
2) don't hesitate to accept trade agreements from far and not really important kingdoms. You might find them very usefull once all your neighbours will declare war on you and your trading partners will break agreements
3) Always have reliable spy in your court

Download (http://www.rome.webz.cz/KoH_Holy_Rome_mod.htm)


Installation
To install the mod you need to have programm called PakMan(downloadable in http://forum.sunflowers.de/showthread.php?t=3255)
before you install the mod,make backups of defs.pak,europe.pak and texts.pak!!(I recomend to create "Knights of Honor\backup" folder and move them there

Use PakMan (http://forum.sunflowers.de/showthread.php?t=3255):
1) make backup of the files: Knights of Honor/packs/defs.pak, europe.pak and texts.pak
2) run PakMan
3) open defs.pak
4a) right-click on any file in defs.pak
4b) follow: extract all files - to original directories (look at PakMan.jpg in the pack how to do it exactly)
5) do the same (step 4a and 4b) with europe.pak and texts.pak (and then close PakMan, you won't need it)
6) look that you have now new folders in your KoH directory (there shuold be following: defs, images, maps, movies, packs, system, Texts
7) extract the HR mod
8) copy the files from HR mod to your KoH directory - files from HR/defs should replace files in your Knights of Honor/defs etc.
9) check if the files are copied in right places (for example try to open Knights of Honor/defs/Quests and there should be now much more files. The third quest should be unite_almoravids.ini which wouldn't be there if the mod isn't installed properly)
10) check if there is new folder in your KoH directory (Knights of Honor/images) which was not there before you installed the mod (so now there should be following folders: defs, images, maps, packs, system, Texts)
check also Installation1jpg and instalation-defs-quests.jpg if your mod is installed right - your folders should include same folders/files as are on the pics
11) run Knights of Honor and enjoy it

steps 3-5 are done in PakMan


4. Uninstallation
a) Remove the "defs", "images", "maps", "movies" and the "Texts" directories from your KoH-folder
b) In PakMan, open backup .pak files(europe.pak, defs.pak and Texts.pak) extract all files into original directories, or move all these 3 .pak files back to "Knights of Honor\paks"

EDIT: Manual updated 15-04-2008

[hunterHun]

elvain, I send the mail with a maps if I know the date. I forgot to ask that. 1000? or 1200? or 1350? or?

[mammix]

hm, what do you mean "princesses have got use"? :)

[hunterHun]

800 to 1500. ok. but not today. tomorrow and wednesday I have soma exam :D history, hungaryan dramatic and literatul, english, and informatics :D
so I collect, and post the maps in this week. some hungaryan, so I translate, or you write the hungaryan name in Hungary? :D

[elvain]

hm, what do you mean "princesses have got use"? :)

sometimes you have to offer them in oder to be able to sign peace :D

@hunterHun: I'm not in a hurry, I already have the base for Hungary now.. but I'm looking forward more sources to extend the base...
I think Hungarian names are not problem for me... I should already have most of them also in English and if not I will ask you.
PS: good luck in your exams :go:

[hunterHun]

oh thanks.
it's gooood :D can I help for you? history, towns name, provincies? but in Hungary people don't use the province word simply say the name :go:

[hunterHun]

hi, there ara the maps:
http://icestorm-hunter.extra.hu/terkepek.rar

[GogoT]

Elvain, m8, I have just united Bulgaria \I was playing as Bdin\ and guess what :D :D :D BULGARIA become PRINCIPALITY :confused: :D :D :D
I have never united bulgaria as Bdin, but I think taht in original KoH after uniting Bulgaria you become Empire of Bulgaria. My Ruler is King now, but he should be Tzar... so you have made a mistake ;)
Since Tzar Simeon all rulers of Bulgaria were "Tzar"s \which mean they are Emperors\

[Halahmir]

Elvain,
i'm playing HR and i think you did a great job... i wouldnt even know where to start to edit the game like that haha.
But i found some problems, maybe fixing them would turn the game even better.
First of all... i have kingdom power at 5, and in the economics section it shows that i have -25 gold for beign at kingdom power 5... ?
Secondly, i was fighting against Karaman... and i was plundering and suddenly Karaman turned into Capadoccia!...... i started looking in the events chart for a "Capadoccia has reappeared from its ashes" or something like that... but nothing was there, not even a CONQUER: KARAMAN HAS BEEN ELIMINATED..... it just disappeared and turned into another kingdom... that was weird.
And finally... another thing that i was aware of.. is that provinces rebel constantly and make their own kingdoms.. so, Germany disappears and Helvetia is the new kingdom.. but a few minutes later, Helvetia is no more... and now Alsace is a new kingdom... its like kingdoms are going up and down constantly.

Without pointing those errors, the game is really well designed.

[elvain]

Elvain,
i'm playing HR and i think you did a great job... i wouldnt even know where to start to edit the game like that haha.
First of all... i have kingdom power at 5, and in the economics section it shows that i have -25 gold for beign at kingdom power 5... ?
it's not a bug, it was planned to be so!
The more you want your population to be happy, the more you have to corrupt them. Happiness costs something ;) Practical reason for this is that with normal KP when large kingdom fell down with it's KP it had absolutely no chance to increase it
Secondly, i was fighting against Karaman... and i was plundering and suddenly Karaman turned into Capadoccia!...... i started looking in the events chart for a "Capadoccia has reappeared from its ashes" or something like that... but nothing was there, not even a CONQUER: KARAMAN HAS BEEN ELIMINATED..... it just disappeared and turned into another kingdom... that was weird.it is weird, but it happens when a rebel conquers a city
And finally... another thing that i was aware of.. is that provinces rebel constantly and make their own kingdoms.. so, Germany disappears and Helvetia is the new kingdom.. but a few minutes later, Helvetia is no more... and now Alsace is a new kingdom... its like kingdoms are going up and down constantly.that's really strange. I did my best to make the AI kingdoms as stable as possible and such things happened comparatively much less than in vanilla or previous versions of this mod.
nevertheless those kingdoms often don't emerge as rebel kingdoms, but as "civil war kingdoms" when a king dies childless

Was it case of just one game or does it happen in all your games with this mod (the rebel thing), because I believe I removed it (or at least made it much less frequent than in vanilla)

PS: do you use ONLY this mod or do you use combination of it and some other mod? (or did you have some other mod installed and didn't remove all files pf that mod before installing HR mod. Because I know that Laudan uses diferent ways in several gameplay parts and he played a lot with rebels, so maybe some of files changed by him remained and cause the chaos on the map?

[Halahmir]

I've re installed the game and then installed the mod, with no other mods on it, as yours is the first i use....

This is my first campaign with your mod, i'll let u know when i play with other kingdoms..

Now.. the kingdoms that appear and disappear are definetly civil war kingdoms, thats for sure. I mean, its not a bad point that that actually happens.. because you have a lot of active kingdoms, but its quiet odd when you sign a deal with lets say Castilla and half a hour later castilla is no more and now there are 4 different kingdoms where castilla used to be

[elvain]

I've re installed the game and then installed the mod, with no other mods on it, as yours is the first i use....

This is my first campaign with your mod, i'll let u know when i play with other kingdoms..

Now.. the kingdoms that appear and disappear are definetly civil war kingdoms, thats for sure. I mean, its not a bad point that that actually happens.. because you have a lot of active kingdoms, but its quiet odd when you sign a deal with lets say Castilla and half a hour later castilla is no more and now there are 4 different kingdoms where castilla used to be

I know and I hate it too... but it's general KoH problem and no mod can solve it, only if we would force AI to marry his kings not only as peace condition but also as normal diplomatic action (otherwise the AI mostly waits untill the king marries a noblewomen)

[IBPK]

Some interesting changes between 1.7 and 1.8. The minus food thing is something I'll keep in mind. I've been working on a new tech tree on and off for a while, some day I might get it finished.

One problem I've had a couple of times, well it's not really a problem for me, is that when I claim land from a one province kingdom and they agree I get millions of gold. I've had this happen at least twice now. While it does speed up building up the towns it feels too exploity for me. I was wondering if you knew what caused it.

Oh also because of all the minus food buildings the ai loves to build, this is what I had when I took over a town. I of course killed all the minus food buildings straight away.

http://img248.imageshack.us/img248/7828/76346979kj9.png

[elvain]

Some interesting changes between 1.7 and 1.8. The minus food thing is something I'll keep in mind. I've been working on a new tech tree on and off for a while, some day I might get it finished.

One problem I've had a couple of times, well it's not really a problem for me, is that when I claim land from a one province kingdom and they agree I get millions of gold. I've had this happen at least twice now. While it does speed up building up the towns it feels too exploity for me. I was wondering if you knew what caused it.

Oh also because of all the minus food buildings the ai loves to build, this is what I had when I took over a town. I of course killed all the minus food buildings straight away.

http://img248.imageshack.us/img248/7828/76346979kj9.png
hi, first let me welcome you on this board :go:

as for the "inheritance thingie" it is general problem of the second patch (1.05) and I don't know how to eliminate it

I hope you like the "food problems", I know abnouot these problems, it happens especially when there is a realm which has all villages plundered and/or the AI didn't build granary in the beggining.

It happens that in my games 2-4 out of 168 provinces has this problem which could be really a BIG problem for an AI nation that has no other province - it has no chance to build new units. but I think I have done my best to minimize it

[IBPK]

I haven't played enough 1.05 games to notice it.

I think piety is too easy to get. I'm going to try and make anything that gives you gold lose you piety and vice versa. Money is the root of all evil. Also money is power and power corrupts.

[SuperStalin]

Two minor glitches in the mod I noticed:

1. I played HR1.8 beta a lot, and I've noticed that the game slows down a lot
when I play as Nicaea. I tried most other factions, and it works rather well,
but for some reason Nicaea makes the gameplay choppy.

2. A few times, when I annex some smaller kingdom through marriage,
and that kingdom completely disappears, I get millions of gold ( and a huge inflation ).
It happened when I acquired Cyprus and some other small kingdom.

Doesn't happen when I annex a kingdom through spy/merchant annexation,
and doesn't happen when I acquire teritories through marriage, but the other kingdom
remains in existence.


I don't know if this could be considered off-topic, but,
I wonder if it's possible to mod KoH to have royal dynasties?

I mean, is it possible for your royal family to have a surname,
that will be attached to all the people born into the family. ( hired knights would have different surnames ).

So, when you start playing with, say Byzantium (example), your rulers have
the Komnin surname, the faction is called Komnin Byzantium, and then, if/when this dynasty becomes extinct, another dynasty
comes to the throne, the name changes to (example) Alexid dynasty.

This could then trigger a lot of turmoil, with some seriously equipped rebels
looting and assaulting castles, trying to become rulers.

[Carbon]

Two minor glitches in the mod I noticed:

1. I played HR1.8 beta a lot, and I've noticed that the game slows down a lot
when I play as Nicaea. I tried most other factions, and it works rather well,
but for some reason Nicaea makes the gameplay choppy.

2. A few times, when I annex some smaller kingdom through marriage,
and that kingdom completely disappears, I get millions of gold ( and a huge inflation ).
It happened when I acquired Cyprus and some other small kingdom.

Doesn't happen when I annex a kingdom through spy/merchant annexation,
and doesn't happen when I acquire teritories through marriage, but the other kingdom
remains in existence.


I don't know if this could be considered off-topic, but,
I wonder if it's possible to mod KoH to have royal dynasties?

I mean, is it possible for your royal family to have a surname,
that will be attached to all the people born into the family. ( hired knights would have different surnames ).

So, when you start playing with, say Byzantium (example), your rulers have
the Komnin surname, the faction is called Komnin Byzantium, and then, if/when this dynasty becomes extinct, another dynasty
comes to the throne, the name changes to (example) Alexid dynasty.

This could then trigger a lot of turmoil, with some seriously equipped rebels
looting and assaulting castles, trying to become rulers.


There are dynasties automatically due to inheritance, marriages children etc. Dynasties can become but nothing happens other than turmoil (heirless king = trouble), besides dynasties were important past the 15th century, not as much as the middle ages, but it would be interesting as an ahistorical mod.

[SuperStalin]

Well, it's not quite historical to call a certain faction "Byzantium" ;)

btw. Is it possible to make a mod that allows the player to set-up sattelite kingdoms ?
For example, I played as the Mameluks, and at the beginning conquered all of Ireland,
then converted all three provinces into Islam, and then... err... relocated the entire faction
of Ottomans to Ireland.

So the Ottomans remained there, fought with England and even expanded into France,
but they never ever converted any provinces to Islam.

I funded them, but nothing special happened. So I wonder if it's possible to make a mod that allows you to set-up semi-independent states which would actively try to expand and
convert, sorta like the crusades in reality.
The only 'thing' with these crusader/jihad states would be that they'd also actively require
funding from you.

It would be an interesting thing to do for big, rich and stable empires.
You could also extinguish these little kingdoms, or give them to someone else.

Is it even possible to mod the game to such an extent?

[IBPK]

The food problem is much for wide spread. I'm fighting in the UK, France and Iberia and at least 20 provinces have had food problems when I took them. Really makes taking them easier :)

[IBPK]

I've got a new one for you.

http://img371.imageshack.us/img371/5149/14390362pl9.png

[Ledhead]

I didn't manage to install the mod before. Now I think I did, I got new units to recruite without the description note...

[elvain]

I've got a new one for you.

http://img371.imageshack.us/img371/5149/14390362pl9.png
OMG, could you send me a save of the game before this? I wonder what happened to the kingdom, not even 10 kids born, all being married and all possible happines buildings being in the town wouldn't be enough for such high happiness
The food problem is much for wide spread. I'm fighting in the UK, France and Iberia and at least 20 provinces have had food problems when I took them. Really makes taking them easier :)that's weird,
I now also have the problem much more frequent, but it is on Middle East scenario where manyprovinces still don't have enough villages

could you please search how granaries and bakeries are spread on the map? (just give me counts with gametime elapsed (F11). Low food may also be caused by rebels or enemy armies who plundered all villages

Well, it's not quite historical to call a certain faction "Byzantium" ;)I know and I hate it, but how should I name it? The only correct name would be empire of the Romans, but the "Latins" who claimed the descendancy called it empire of the Greeks
So I think Byzantia is the best compromise

btw. Is it possible to make a mod that allows the player to set-up sattelite kingdoms ?
...
The only 'thing' with these crusader/jihad states would be that they'd also actively require
funding from you.

It would be an interesting thing to do for big, rich and stable empires.
You could also extinguish these little kingdoms, or give them to someone else.

Is it even possible to mod the game to such an extent?I understand you and I would like such thing to be in the game too. But please keep in mind that KoH isn't very modding friendly game and even if it would be those changes are more for a KOH2 project (they's be even too much for just KoH expansion pack (which would come bit too late)
We talked a lot about "satelite states" - vasals who would have special relations with you and would have possibility to "invoke vasalage" demand your help, not only via declaring war, but also demanding your armies to come or money... as well as we discussed crusader states a lot (at least that they should be catholic no mater what religion the conquered province has)

I think we should re-open a KOH2 Wishlist thread as number of us is rather new to KoH and didn't state their wishes ;)
1. I played HR1.8 beta a lot, and I've noticed that the game slows down a lot
when I play as Nicaea. I tried most other factions, and it works rather well,
but for some reason Nicaea makes the gameplay choppy.

2. A few times, when I annex some smaller kingdom through marriage,
and that kingdom completely disappears, I get millions of gold ( and a huge inflation ).
It happened when I acquired Cyprus and some other small kingdom.

I wonder if it's possible to mod KoH to have royal dynasties?
I thought I already replied to this post, but didn't so here we go again:
1. I don't understand it and never noticed it. To be honest at actual stage I don't think I can solve this problem any soon

2. that is general problem of the 2nd patch 1.05, the mod has nothing to do with it (to be honest as far as I remember it never happened to me, eventhough I several times inherited some small country

as for the dynasties again it is a KoH2 demand, modding can't help you. You can only think it yourself and make list of rulers and dynasties, but it would require going deep into the game and without sourcecode it isn't possible

I didn't manage to install the mod before. Now I think I did, I got new units to recruite without the description note...so you didn't install the texts files well

the best would be to unpack the entire texts.pak and then copy Holy Rome texts folder over it

[Ledhead]

hmm, i thought i did it exactly as it said in the instruction...i exracted all the packs in the supposed folders.
so, do i play the mod or am i playing the original game with the new units only?

[elvain]

look at the startscreen (where you chose from kingdoms).
if there are new states such as Flandres in 1200 etc, you shuold be playing moded game.

Also in military buildings chainmail workshop is an upgrade of armooury, market is upgrade of tax office and there is a new building called hospital (in advanced and looks the same as scribe's office), maximum for piety and books should be 1200 instead of 1000 etc, but these are the most visible things

also the Ai should be much more agressive and your real income especially on hard should not correspond with the green income (look at green number and compare the true income between 2 ticks)

[IBPK]

1.OMG, could you send me a save of the game before this? I wonder what happened to the kingdom, not even 10 kids born, all being married and all possible happines buildings being in the town wouldn't be enough for such high happiness
that's weird,
I now also have the problem much more frequent, but it is on Middle East scenario where manyprovinces still don't have enough villages

2.could you please search how granaries and bakeries are spread on the map? (just give me counts with gametime elapsed (F11). Low food may also be caused by rebels or enemy armies who plundered all villages

3.I know and I hate it, but how should I name it? The only correct name would be empire of the Romans, but the "Latins" who claimed the descendancy called it empire of the Greeks
So I think Byzantia is the best compromise


1.I can only see the files for the first 100 saves on my HD, not sure where the rest are. I'll mess around and see if I can get the files. Not sure where I would upload them they are over 5megs.

2. Without Granary
Jer - 7 - 4:55
Mus - 10 - 10:41
Nor - 8 - 16:38
Ott - 10 - 9:40
Counting the Bakeries would take some time.

3.Would Eastern Roman Empire be wrong?

[IBPK]

Used bsswitch to have a look for you.

http://img249.imageshack.us/img249/6789/60972662fb0.png

[elvain]

1.I can only see the files for the first 100 saves on my HD, not sure where the rest are. I'll mess around and see if I can get the files. Not sure where I would upload them they are over 5megs.

2. Without Granary
Jer - 7 - 4:55
Mus - 10 - 10:41
Nor - 8 - 16:38
Ott - 10 - 9:40
Counting the Bakeries would take some time.

3.Would Eastern Roman Empire be wrong?
2) well, the first one isn't bad, but those other are kinda worse, but still it isn't that terrible.

I don't promise to do it immediately, but I will think about it and possibly do some changes for Middle Eastern mod - and separate it for just Holy Rome gameplay changes

3) I don't like that much - Eastern Roman empire requires Western roman Empire so that means Eastern Roman empire was a state that ended in 476 CE and the "Eastern part" became the only true Roman empire (all but Latin/Catholic sources refere to it as the Roman empire till 1453!)

thus calling Basileios II. or Alexios Conmene Eastern Roman emperor would be the same insult as calling him emperor of Byzantia - so no real diference. And for most of people today Byzantia is much less confusing
Used bsswitch to have a look for you.

http://img249.imageshack.us/img249/6789/60972662fb0.png
that explains everythig, so there is no problem IMO

[IBPK]

Well the small problem with 3 is, I recently handed the prov over to them so they wouldn't declare war on me again while I was fighting elsewhere, so there haven't been any battles.

Bakeries are built in about 50% of the provinces. The main problem is the AI builds all the Weaponsmiths, making a huge amount of negative food. The sword and spear master are the main problem. Even provinces with Granaries are losing food due to having all the -food buildings. I could try counting the number of negative food provinces for those 4 saves as well.

Jer - 8 negative, 4 zero food change.
Mus - 37 negative, 3 zero change.
Nor - 36 negative, 7 zero change.
Ott - 21 negative, 7 zero change.

[elvain]

Well the small probably with 3 is, I recently handed the prov over to them so they wouldn't declare war on me again while I was fighting elsewhere, so there haven't been any battles.

Bakeries are built in about 50% of the provinces. The main problem is the AI builds all the Weaponsmiths, making a huge amount of negative food. The sword and spear master are the main problem. Even provinces with Granaries are losing food due to having all the -food buildings. I could try counting the number of negative food provinces for those 4 saves as well.
I didn't want you to ask fot that as it takes long time.. but if you are so nice to do it, I will be grateful

is the first part about the screenshot of happiness? I think they don't have to fight with you, maybe there is some other enemy marshal who is caught in some cape and can't escape, is too weak and is always running away due to his low morale, while the Zanatan (?) marshal still keeps attacking him
Jer - 8 negative, 4 zero food change. I don't thnik that's really bad - considering some of the provinces may be plundered and will recover

[IBPK]

The numbers may not be 100% right, I just did a quick count, clicking on all the provinces, I may have done 1 or 2 twice. Still the numbers are very high in the later game saves, once the ai has enough money to spam weaponsmiths in all provinces.

[IBPK]

Another one

http://img440.imageshack.us/img440/999/paganuw8.gif

No autoconvert for some reason. Yet autoconvert works for provinces they take.

http://img257.imageshack.us/img257/4890/pagan2as3.gif

[elvain]

I did my best to prolongue auto-conversions. The best would be (IMO) to switch them completely off, but it is not possible.

So once the provinces will be auto converted, but it should take longer. Sadly not in all cases it takes so long

[Xuca]

It seems to me that the provinces Estonia took were already pagan.

[IBPK]

Yeah you are right, I didn't notice because I was pretty sleepy when I took those screenshots. None of Estonias lands were autoconverting.

[Mephistopheles]

It's a late-game screenshot. Those unlikely pagan provinces are propably the work of spies.

[IBPK]

I think it is spies. My spy didn't last very long in the golden horde they were having constant army revolts, lots of spy wars going on up there.

[IBPK]

http://img267.imageshack.us/img267/4788/pagan3gv8.gif

Well seems most of them were pagan for a while. I believe Estonia broke off from the Golden Horde. Still doesn't explain the non-autoconverting.

[IBPK]

I just had a thought, what if autoconvert doesn't work while there is a crusade going on?

[elvain]

I don't think they don't work during crusades, but I may be wrong

as for the spies, yes, they should be much more active in this mod

[IBPK]

I remember the Pope calling crusade after crusade on Estonia, because of the unconverted catholic provinces. It's the only thing I can think of.

[elvain]

I remember the Pope calling crusade after crusade on Estonia, because of the unconverted catholic provinces. It's the only thing I can think of.

these 2 provinces certainly increase "crusade coeficient" where catholic/orthodox provinces have some value and catholic states a pagans are at war count aswell. So these 2 catholic provinces certainly increase probability of a crusade - the pope doesn't really like when catholics are ruled by pagans ;)

[IBPK]

Had another breakaway pagan nation. I think the bug is breakaway pagan nations that breakaway with a non-pagan province do not autoconvert.

[IBPK]

I took over a province with -10k food. Normally the villages and stuff regenerate once you get it back into positive food, but the for some reason the stonehedges didn't.

http://img168.imageshack.us/img168/5521/pagan6lm2.gif

[Doux]

Minus 10k food! Maybe the buildings that 'cost' food to maintain should also cost food to be built, thus eliminating the possibility of food problems getting worse due to new buildings? Or is the main problem plundering et cetera?

[IBPK]

Didn't you make the hospital use piety?

[elvain]

yes, but piety is a "kingdom resource" while food is just "local/provincial resource".

And I have tested it and found out that "local resources" cannot be required for buildings, because the game wants "kingdom resources" - it doesn't find food there so the building isn't buildable

[IBPK]

You could do need Bakery for sword/spearmaster and plate/scale armour. Or find the AI files and make them build better.

[rugzO]

Hi all,

I found two little wrong in the HR181.

First wrong entry..
Open..
Texts\map\eu_realms.tsv

Find..
Seljuks Rum Rum

Replace
Seljuks Seljuks Seljuks

This time periot not be Rum kingdom in the Anatolia and East Anatolia


Second wrong entry..
Open..
Texts\map\eu_kingdomdescr.tsv

Find..
%V%olga

Replace
%5V%olga

That fix to show the Volga desc on the Kingdoms select screen..

Sorry my english.. I am good for can be help little..

[elvain]

Hi all,

I found two little wrong in the HR181.

First wrong entry..
Open..
Texts\map\eu_realms.tsv

Find..
Seljuks Rum Rum

Replace
Seljuks Seljuks Seljuks

This time periot not be Rum kingdom in the Anatolia and East Anatolia


??

what time period? seljuk sultanate of Rum existed from 1078 to 1307. I agree that in 1350 it is not perfectly accurate, but in that period Seljuks as the name of that entity is much less accurate. and btw, in the latest version (I'm not sure if I uploaded it already or not) in 1350 there is Qara Qoyunlu and Karaman instead of Slejuks/Rum so it represents later turkish eastern and central Anatolia much better

But I'm open to any argumentation that proves me wrong

[rugzO]

11 May 330 Town's name changed yo Constantinopolis when I. Constantinus. After, started New Roman age. Constantinopolis peoples called "Rum" mean Roma's Citizen.

After Roma faction destroyed, Romans join to Byzantium. Catholics and Muslims attacked Byzantium in 9-13 century, because Romans was orthodox.

Turks settle down in Anatolia on 11.century and They claim a some byzantium territory.

Romans (Rum) wasn't constitute states in Anatolia. Maybe populate in some lands.

Rum living this place but dont make kingdoms or city.. Your wrong entry is make a Rum Kingsdom.. But we control to Seljuks Turks.. Just name Rum.

http://img46.imageshack.us/img46/1634/bfcyfck20sele7uklu20ddmcu3.gif

[elvain]

Excuse me, but that's just your misunderstanding.

Rum in Turkish (as well as in Arabic and all middle eastern languages) means Rome. So called Byzantine empire was in fact Roman empire (in turkish Rum).

In middle ages Anatolia was caled Bilad ar-Rum by the Arabs and then also Turks, so when the Seljuks conquered it, they conquered Bilar ar-Rum and established powerful sultanate of Rum in Konya, so by sultanate of Rum noone (in the West) understands Roman-Byzantine empire, but Seljuk sultanate of Rum - simply because Rum is Turkish word and what you understand as RUm is for us Roman or rather Byzantine empire, got it? even other turks over here had no objections, perhaps because they understandf this clash of terminologies and don't look at it just from turkish view.

that's the problem with claims in middle ages.
when Franks in the west restored "the empire" they claimed title of Emperor of Rome. But in the meantime this title was continuously used by "Greek" Roman emperors in Constantinople (tr. Istanbul). So there were 2 Roman empires among christians. Seljuk Turks conquered lands of Romans (Bilad ar-Rum) so they claimed to be Sultans of Rum (Rome), because they didn't know that Rome wasn't Anatolia, but in Italy and the name was used by the Byzantines.

Thus sultanate of Rum is absolutely correct according to western historigraphy. If the game has turkish localization it would perhaps sound strange, because name Rum means something else in Turkish.
and I didn't make kingdom of Rum but SULTANATE, with Muslim rulers and Turkish names, not Greek/Byzantine which were back then called Rum in Turkish. So you just misunderstood it. It may sound weird to you but Sultanate of Rum is Slejuk sultanate of Rum :go: take it easy ;)

btw here are some non-Turkish maps, I hope they will convince you that I didn't mean Romans-Byzantines-Greeks, but Slejuks-sultans of Rum
http://www.euratlas.com/history_europe/europe_map_1100.html
http://www.euratlas.com/history_europe/europe_map_1200.html
http://www.friesian.com/romania.htm#rum
http://img511.imageshack.us/img511/7093/neareastsaladinzy1.gif - a map from atlas made for Encyclopaedia of Islam, a source one can 100% rely on as it was made by the best western islamologs


PS: in most of european languages the guy who intentionaly kills someone is called an Assassin, what comes from ismailite shiite muslim sect which fought Seljuk sultans in 11th-13th centuries. Does it mean that every assassin in modern european history was ismailite muslim? think about it ;)

[rugzO]

Thanks for reply elvain..

I looking TR vikipedi.. And i see you right..

"Anadolu Selçuklu Devleti veya "Rum Sultanlığı(Selçuk-ür Rum)", Selçukluların Anadolu’da 1075 yılında Bizans 'tan İznik 'i alarak kurduğu devlettir."

Mean..

"Anatolia Seljuks State or "Sultanete of Rum(Selçuk-ür Rum)", Seljuks take the Nicea to Byzantines on the Anatolia in 1075 years and make this state.."

My english bad sorry...

[IBPK]

Found another bug. 3 different kingdoms have done this. They all are big and powerful, they have lots of habours and import all the exotic goods, this gives them a large negative income. Soon they are out of money and lose all non merchant knights, they still have negative income and so can't recruit armies.

[elvain]

it's a general KoH bug, AI doesn't think in intentions so when his exotic goods cost him too much, they never stop importing them.

The positive is that the AI even manages to import them

[IBPK]

Could increase the cost to import and decrease the maintenance then the ai wouldn't be handicapped.

[snider]

Hi. I'm new to this game. Great mod elvain. The biggest problem I see is the building of useless buildings and the accompanying food problems. The AI really likes those halbard smithys.. edit: Have you thought about making some buildings produce negative workers instead of food? Or gold for that matter. Any sort of balance that doesnt cripple the AI. (Military buildings -> Cripple workers, Money buildings -> Cripple food, Trade good buildings -> Cripple gold. I think I'll have to try something like this..)

Regarding trade goods, maybe the line in globals.in2 can do something
"exotics_gold_threshold = 4500"
I have no idea how to test it. Is there a cheat or something that can help?


Anyways is the newest version 1.8.1 or 1.8 beta? It's quite unclear :)

[IWM]

it is 1.8.1

[Mile]

I downloaded mapchanges and I must say that i was fascinated with historical details. Only few things are right now on my mind but it's more than enough....Names of provinces in Asia Minor, Jovan Vladimir of Zeta, fact that Serbia under Nemanjic dynasty wasn't vassal of Bulgaria, Almoravids,Ayubids, Sarai town, Normans in south Italy etc. Great work!!!

[vLabz]

Hi !
Where can I find a list of what does the mod ?
I did not find a readme file in the latest version.

[chalicek]

Hallo, I would like to install HR 1.8.1, but the link of PakMan doesn't work. Do you have some active link to download PakMan?? Thanx a lot. Greetings from the Czech Republic (former kingdom of Bohemia)

[vLabz]

Hallo, I would like to install HR 1.8.1, but the link of PakMan doesn't work. Do you have some active link to download PakMan?? Thanx a lot. Greetings from the Czech Republic (former kingdom of Bohemia)

Are all these steps necessary ? (repacking the patched files)

I mean I installed the nointrofix by unzipping it in the game dir and it worked without needing repacking...

[IWM]

Well, maybe not...
But it may be...
Just try, as maybe BSS doesn't know too.

[elvain]

Hi !
Where can I find a list of what does the mod ?
I did not find a readme file in the latest version.
I am sorry, but I am not able to post the list of changes recently. So try this, perhaps you can find it there, but I'm not sure: http://www.goneflowers.de/archive/index.php/t-16691.html
Hallo, I would like to install HR 1.8.1, but the link of PakMan doesn't work. Do you have some active link to download PakMan?? Thanx a lot. Greetings from the Czech Republic (former kingdom of Bohemia)
Ahoj, vítám Tě tady :D
Hi, greetings to my countrymate :go:, I don't know about any active link to PakMan, but I'll PM you with more info in Czech ;)


Are all these steps necessary ? (repacking the patched files)

I mean I installed the nointrofix by unzipping it in the game dir and it worked without needing repacking...
for the mod some folders have to be unpacked, unlike for the no-intro fix

[Doux]

Hallo, I would like to install HR 1.8.1, but the link of PakMan doesn't work. Do you have some active link to download PakMan?? Thanx a lot. Greetings from the Czech Republic (former kingdom of Bohemia)This is PakMan (http://forums.blackseastudios.com/showthread.php?t=210).

Are all these steps necessary ? (repacking the patched files)

I mean I installed the nointrofix by unzipping it in the game dir and it worked without needing repacking...The modded files do not need to be repacked but for Holy Rome some packages have to be unpacked.

[chalicek]

Thanks a lot to all for PakMan. The Holy Rome Mod is nice work, thanks to Elvain for his job.

[Brazillian Knight]

since nobody answered me here ... http://forums.blackseastudios.com/showthread.php?t=55&page=3
when I posted, there is more than 2 months
I posted right here ^^

hi im brazillian
I need some help in this matter
I wish to know where i can edit the skill "archery mastery"
I want to do with that the level 3 comeback to didn't cause casualties from friendly fire
how i do this?

sory by the poor english, I understand a little
but I'm not fluent

hugs
stay in peace ^^

[Dobber]

It is off-topic here and should not have been posted here. Maybe you should have bumped the other thread to bring it back to the top of the list where maybe someone would see it and maybe answer it.

This thread is basically just for questions comcerning the Holy Rome mod and does not need to be cluttered with off-topic questions.

[Brazillian Knight]

well i'll try
but try understand me
i love the game but didn't know how 'edit' the game
and sorry by the post
holy rome is the best mod
i play it since the 1.7 and where i find that version? (1.7)
hugs stay in peace ^^

[Wenceslaus]

Yeah, this mod is great. I played 1.7. Hey elvain, is 1.8 Version finally out of beta?

[Duc de Cize]

hi everyone,
i can't get to install your mod elvain, when using pakman, extracting de def. files to original directory, it shows :"unable to create etc."
i'm playing with 1.05
thanks for you advices.

[Duc de Cize]

ok i got it fixed, bad installation.
quick back up
great job elvain even though i didn't get to test all aspects of the game.
that's why there's something that seem's strange to me but i don't know if it is a volontary effect : some of my town seemed to have freezed, with a minus food production, there's a grenne bar upon each village of the province, but no production, food, gold, or piety.
thanks for your answers.

[Mile]

I've noticed few things in mapchanges. It's about names of towns in Serbia and Bosna.
Belgrade wasn't capital of Raska. Actually this town was in possesion of Serbs few times but for very short time. In 1404 Despot Stefan Lazarevic (son of Knez Lazar) became first Serbian ruler who gained control over town for relatively longer period. Stefan accepted vassalage to the Hungarian king Sigismund, who awarded him with Belgrade, until then in Hungarian possession. And Belgrade isn't in Raska. I think that town of Ras is more appropriate for capital of Raska. It was first capital of Nemanjić dynasty.
Sarajevo wasn't very important town in medieval time. Capital of Bosna was Bobovac and
town of Kraljeva Sutjeska (King's Sutjeska). Actualy Bobovac was a fortress and in vicinity was unfortified town of Kraljeva Sutjeska. And kingdom of Bosna existed for whole middle ages, as vassal state of Hungary.


I wrote this because I appreciate author's work in making historicaly accurate map and i've tried to help.

[Altair]

Well done with the mode, elvain, from te pictures it looks awesome. Actually, when I use PakMan as you wrote in the first post there weren't images and movies folders. Well, there are only the maps, Texts and defs new folders. Are there any other files I should extract with PakMan? Thanks anyway :)

[elvain]

if I remember correctly the most important to be unpacked by PakMan is the texts.pak, all other .pak files can remain as they are... and movies are not important at all, but images definitely are (images for new buildings and units - but these are not there if you downloaded only the mapchanges)

[Relith]

Thanks for the effort you've gone to Elvain, you're basically the only reason I've dusted off my copy of the game to try it again!

What I've noticed, and what Altair said, is that your instructions may need to be updated.


Use PakMan
1) make backup of the files: Knights of Honor/packs/defs.pak, europe.pak and texts.pak
2) run PakMan
3) open defs.pak
4a) right-click on any file in defs.pak
4b) follow: extract all files - to original directories (look at PakMan.jpg in the pack how to do it exactly)
5) do the same (step 4a and 4b) with europe.pak and texts.pak (and then close PakMan, you won't need it)
6) look that you have now new folders in your KoH directory (there shuold be following: defs, images, maps, movies, packs, system, Texts


I didn't have the folders 'images' or 'movies' at this point in the installation.

[quote]
9) check if the files are copied in right places (for example try to open Knights of Honor/defs/Quests and there should be now much more files. First 3 (in alphabetical order) should be questinfo.ini, unite_alexandria.ini and unite_algiers.ini
[\quote]

'unite_alexandria.ini' & 'unite_algiers.ini' are not in your HR181 version.

I may have done something wrong in the installation, but you should check the instructions just in case.

Cheers.
PS: Let us know if you move to another game, so we can follow :)

[elvain]

I'm very sorry it wasn't done far before, but I finaly edited the 'manual' in first post so I hope installation won't be so confusing anymore.

Soon I will also edit the website with download

[Wenceslaus]

Hey Elvain, this is Miesko from the sunflowers forums.

I was just wondering with Holy Rome, why are the support costs for marshals so high? I know how to edit it and it's your mod, but wouldn't certain aspects being dirt easy be more fun, whilst others such as campaign strategy and battles for example, being hard?

Spies, merchants etc I don't recall the support costs.

But either way, great mod and it's time to finally reinstall!!! (new comp)

[elvain]

to be honest I don't really know. I just wanted the Ai to be more competable.. but it is already more than a year since I last touched the mod, so I forgot many things about it :o

PS: I thought you are Wenceslaus from Paradox. btw, why Wenceslaus?

[Wenceslaus]

to be honest I don't really know. I just wanted the Ai to be more competable.. but it is already more than a year since I last touched the mod, so I forgot many things about it :o

PS: I thought you are Wenceslaus from Paradox. btw, why Wenceslaus?


They banned me more freakin times, when all I "admitted" to was re registering because I forgot my password and had an expired email address. I hate that Paradox is so anal about re registering.

I looked up Polish kings and found Wenceslaus the second (reigned 1000 - 1005 AD) and saw a pic of him, he looked pretty damn cool. Plus the dude was really Bohemian, not Polish :)

[Lord Martin]

Hello Elvain!

I´ve got problems with installing you mod. After using packman no new folders shows up at all. :cry:
Could it be because I use the Gamers gate version?

[elvain]

I have no experience with GamersGate version, but the files should be the same.

I think the problem is that you didn't unpack the files correctly, maybe?
Did you extracted it "to original directory"?

[Lord Martin]

I have no experience with GamersGate version, but the files should be the same.

I think the problem is that you didn't unpack the files correctly, maybe?
Did you extracted it "to original directory"?

Hmm, I did that. Did try to reinstall and do it again to be sure.
I use Vista, and maybe that makes things not work as intendent?

[elvain]

so you did extract files using pakman.. and did you try to search for some of the files then?

I think PakMan works also on Vista. So extract the files to original directories (files from defs.pak, europe.pak and texts.pak) and then search the files (e.g. defs.in2) and you'll see where they were extracted.

Then move those 3 pak files (defs, europe, texts) to some backup folder, copy the Mod files to overwrite the extracted files and run the game. If the start map is changed (in early Armenia is replaced by Ani and Vaspourakan, Lotharingia covers teh Netherlands and is vasal of Germany) the mod should be installed correctly. If not, try to move all those extracted files to your KoH directory.

Still I don't get how is it possible that they are not extracted directly to the KoH directory, didn't you make some special location for koH direcrtory?

[Lord Martin]

So I finally got it to work.

I was forces to reinstall it under me second harddrive (D:) due to lack of space on the C: drive. And there the folders showed up when I packManed the packs (exept image and movie folders, but it seemed to work any way) and manage to get the mod installed.

I don´t understand why it wouldn´t create folders on the C: drive, and since I reinstalled I didn´t get the chance to search for the files, but I´m happy it worked out well anyway.

Thx for the help!

[Lord Martin]

Btw, isn´t there a way to fix the problem that you can´t enter enemy cities during an assult?

[Killler]

When i instal it, start KOH and play, game is shuted down and it writes me this: Zero bytes of memory requested!...what does it mean? what did i wrong? :bash:

[elvain]

oops, I should know how to answer.. long ago, it was happening.. well, maybe a stupid question, but do you have the patch 1.05 (second) installed?

maybe try to reinstall the mod

[Killler]

thank you...ill try it...im stupid...:D i have just patch 1.03 :P...

[Killler]

still doesnt work...:sad:...maybe...i dont understand right the readme file...becose im not english....:rolleyes:

[Dobber]

He said he has 1.03 patch, doesn't he have to have the 1.05 patch for this version of your Mod, Elvain?

[Altair]

Well, I,m with the 1.03 and it works perfectlly :rolleyes: I,m not sure that's the problem...

[poster]

hey elvain in your mod, i have never seen the AI use the new special units(templar, hospitalers, etc...) maybe its because the AI is so random and stupid that it doesnt calculate what it actually needs for them, so they are never available(ever conquered a city that had the axe factory when there where no axe units in that province... yeah the ai has issues >.<).

does that happen to you?
and, do you know any way to fix it?

thanks lad, in advance.

;)

[elvain]

I actually managed to make this happeinng less often than in vanilla (every city had axe smith regardless any axe unit was available there), so I increased price of axe smith, but it didn't work well enough. I'm not sure if I can do more.

As for the special units, I see them rather often in my games, I often face armies with Templars and Feudal knights when I play in western Europe. Thuogh if I play in Eastern Europe or the Middle East I rather face other units (for obvious reason: Templars or Hospitaliers are not available there)
but you are right, Hospitaliers are probably the rarest unit - they have too many requirements and AI rather rarey builds hospital (eventhough I tried to "script" an order to build it).

Turkic Tarkans and Bulgars, nevertheless, are used also by the AI and Byzantine spearmen are one of AI's favourite units (wow :) )

Thanks for your coments, :go:

[poster]

do you know anything that can be done to make the AI recruit tougher units(Temps.), as opposed to simple ones(man-at-arm)?

oh and thanks for the answer. maybe its something in my game... ill check it out.

[elvain]

Only thing I can think of is to decrease price of Church and the unit itself..

as I said, in my games (not after the first hour, but after 2-4 hrs) the AI recruits them even more than I do (AI has more money than I do)

[funks]

Maybe you remember me as Funkybax.

Sometimes I return to this gem.
Now I'm playing as Jerusalem in the High Age. 3 different kings with no heirs at all.
But I succeed to remain independent.

To me this is the only game where you can really breath the Middle Ages air. Much more than MTW. Shame that the game was so poorly implemented before to exit.

Long life to your mod. :go:

[Ruga]

Iwould like to begin to say that Holy Rome is an awesome mod, that said I have a few questions:

1. Are you still working on it?

2.Are you suppose to get 3 million gold when you inherit a nation?( I was playing as Jerusalem and married a french princess and when their king died I inherited what was left of France plus the 3 million)

3.If you're still working on this awesome mod when can we be expecting the next release(1.9)?

[KingJohn]

I am new to KoH. I am an expiernced EU1,2 and 3 player and am really enjoying the 1.05 game.

Would you reommend this MOD? I am not finding the game very easy so would this make it too hard?

What are the main features of this MOD? Also do you guys know of any MOD that would allow the selling of trade goods to a world market? Or is that wishful thinking!

Thanks

[elvain]

hi, both Ruga and KingJohn

Ruga:
1. not at all, I'm rather working on middle eastern scenario (new map for KoH) but if you have any comments or ideas how to make this mod better, I am open and can do them

2. you are not. This is general 1.05 bug. For long I thought this mod can prevent it, but it doesn't. I don't know the source of this bug and so I won't eliminate it. Sorry.

KingJohn
I have just downloaded EUIII demo and I think that soon I could buy also EU2 (as I work on a mod for it, it would be nice to have the game itself :D)

this mod increases difficulty of the game, however some players told me that it is still not much. So generaly I think if you play this mod on normal, it would be like playing normal patched game on hard, just with some things changed (AI policy enhanced, different prices of knights and, inverted Kingdom Power, food is made to be more important, etc)

you can also download just mapchanges (which are included in the mod itself) and play on historically more accurate map (only original political layout, not province borders)

I'm not sure that I (as the author of this mod) am neutral enough to recomend it. But I would :)

[Ruga]

hi, both Ruga and KingJohn

Ruga:
1. not at all, I'm rather working on middle eastern scenario (new map for KoH) but if you have any comments or ideas how to make this mod better, I am open and can do them

2. you are not. This is general 1.05 bug. For long I thought this mod can prevent it, but it doesn't. I don't know the source of this bug and so I won't eliminate it. Sorry.

Well when I'm playing your mod there are only minor things that bother me at the moment, one being the unfinished texts of the descriptions, the fact that curians (or something like that) isn't properly placed on the choicemap, you should replace Prussia with the livonian order as Prussia was established in 1525 far later than this games starting dates and finally on the details some of the graphics are a bit unbrushed such as the hospitalier's icon(Though I don't know if those are the original ones).

I wouldn't mind the other changes you were talking about either adding things like "master fletcher","madrase" and "zawiya" and this is merely a question do you know if it is possible to have a female regent as head regent in KoH?

And you could add a few united countries like the Kalmar Union(as a unite event of course) and maybe some smaller ones that exsisted with in these timelines and then maybe make some more units to both arabic and european nations(but only if there are historical evidence to support a few more.), these are all mere suggestions and should not divert any attention from your middle east mod if anything you may impliment some of the ideas if you find them attractive for your mod holy rome preferably after you've finished the one you're working on now.


On another note I'm eagerly waiting for the other mod you are making as it seems very fun to have a scenario set in the middle east during this time period.

[KingJohn]

Thanks Elvain.

I would recommend EU3 to EU2. I would also recommend the In Nomine expansion. It adds a lot to the the base game; eg. national decisons, smart rebels, an effective HRE, missions and a better AI. EU3 is awesome from a strategic/political point of view. I am enjoying KoH as it seems to have a bit more depth than ME:TW2 on the building and diplomatic front while still have a strategic element.

So far, I don't bother to fight the battles. Is this a mistake? Would a resonably capable human beat the AI in combat more effectively or is their little consequence?

[KingJohn]

The PakMan program link seems to not be working. Does anyone have a working link? Is there any other way of applying this mod without it?

[poster]

hey elvain if you buy EuII send me a PMessage, maybe we can play some mutliplayer matches :)

i tried eu3 some but diddnt really like it(its to me, basically an economic simulator, also ping-pong battles are way too unrealistic and annoy me).

it seems that euii is a more well structured game and since you're making a mod for it maybe you got it to be even sharper(hopefully, i was really let down with eu3).

if i do get it ill get the asian expansion too, keep me updated. ;)

[KingJohn]

hey elvain if you buy EuII send me a PMessage, maybe we can play some mutliplayer matches :)

i tried eu3 some but diddnt really like it(its to me, basically an economic simulator, also ping-pong battles are way too unrealistic and annoy me).

it seems that euii is a more well structured game and since you're making a mod for it maybe you got it to be even sharper(hopefully, i was really let down with eu3).

if i do get it ill get the asian expansion too, keep me updated. ;)

Why is EU3 an economic simulator? Are you talking about Victoria? EU3 is largely the same as EU2. It just has extra features.
It was a bit buggy when first release (yes the ping pong) but it was fine after the NA expansion and now with the IN expansion there is just no comparison.

[poster]

well its offtopic but... :)
it seems that the only thing you are really doing for a long time is, getting your merchants to work, balancing or getting rid of your inflation, and messing with investments(thus, economy).
its not like in koh where you're always building something or fighting.
also wars are a major hassle and its nearly impossible to survive as a 1 province country.

it seems that eu2 has more of a focus on the realistic.

i really felt detached when playing eu3 like if all i was doing was managing those bars, without any diplomatic fun or battles, etc. also... why do marriages last for ever?

anyhow, thats part of the problems i faced.

[elvain]

Well when I'm playing your mod there are only minor things that bother me at the moment, one being the unfinished texts of the descriptions, the fact that curians (or something like that) isn't properly placed on the choicemap, you should replace Prussia with the livonian order as Prussia was established in 1525 far later than this games starting dates and finally on the details some of the graphics are a bit unbrushed such as the hospitalier's icon(Though I don't know if those are the original ones).you're right, the texts are everything but finnished, my bad. I didn't really bother to finnish them as long as the things were working.
The whole (eastern) Baltic part of map should be redone, but I tried to tweak it by adding part of "The Baltic mod", but something got messy and I didn't have time to trace the problem to its very roots and later I just forgot about it.
Prussia is just wrong name, it is supposed to represent pagan Prussians who gave the region its name.
And sadly I'm terribly unskiled in matter of graphics so this is actually the best I can offer (this is really AMATEUR mod, I understand almost nothing about computers :D

I wouldn't mind the other changes you were talking about either adding things like "master fletcher","madrase" and "zawiya" and this is merely a question do you know if it is possible to have a female regent as head regent in KoH?those will certainly be incorporated to the Middle eastern mod. Concerning regent, I'm afraid that no regent at all is possible in KoH, so neither male, nor female.

And you could add a few united countries like the Kalmar Union and maybe some smaller ones that exsisted with in these timelinesthis is actually a good idea and doesn't take much time, so it is possible I could add them to the mod. I welcome any suggestions (I have already exhausted almost all my knowledge/imagination)

and then maybe make some more units to both arabic and european nations(but only if there are historical evidence to support a few more.)this sound near to impossible: there is a limit for usable units: max 6 can be added and from these 6 only few can be displayed in the "units view" on political map.

On another note I'm eagerly waiting for the other mod you are making as it seems very fun to have a scenario set in the middle east during this time period.thanks, I hope I will be able to finnish it.

I am enjoying KoH as it seems to have a bit more depth than ME:TW2 on the building and diplomatic front while still have a strategic element.

So far, I don't bother to fight the battles. Is this a mistake? Would a resonably capable human beat the AI in combat more effectively or is their little consequence?I can't compare much yet, but although I was looking forward to playing EU, KoH still leads in my eyes...
also I usually leave the battles to the AI. But sometimes it is good to take the lead yourself, if there is really important battle, it is better to lead it yourself because the AI isn't really tough to be beaten on the battlefield (if you know how, of course ;) )
or you have your ally in the province, it is always good to start the battle yourslef, ask for reinforcements and when they arrive, you can zoom out and continue on the strategic map ;)

The PakMan program link seems to not be working. Does anyone have a working link? Is there any other way of applying this mod without it?I should post it somewhere, or find some valid link.. or you can download it with poster's Gathering mod, it sounds pretty interesting :)

EU stuff

EU stuffthough it is very interesting and I'd like to discuss it, I think we should find another place for it in order not to confuse those who are seeking help with Holy Rome mod. What about a thread in off-topic section?

[Ruga]

you're right, the texts are everything but finnished, my bad. I didn't really bother to finnish them as long as the things were working.
The whole (eastern) Baltic part of map should be redone, but I tried to tweak it by adding part of "The Baltic mod", but something got messy and I didn't have time to trace the problem to its very roots and later I just forgot about it.
Prussia is just wrong name, it is supposed to represent pagan Prussians who gave the region its name.
And sadly I'm terribly unskiled in matter of graphics so this is actually the best I can offer (this is really AMATEUR mod, I understand almost nothing about computers :D

those will certainly be incorporated to the Middle eastern mod. Concerning regent, I'm afraid that no regent at all is possible in KoH, so neither male, nor female.

this is actually a good idea and doesn't take much time, so it is possible I could add them to the mod. I welcome any suggestions (I have already exhausted almost all my knowledge/imagination)

this sound near to impossible: there is a limit for usable units: max 6 can be added and from these 6 only few can be displayed in the "units view" on political map.

thanks, I hope I will be able to finnish it.

Well if that is the case then you haven't done a terrible job with the graphics.

on the countries I am myself quite a novice on the subject but I can give you a par of links to a site with maps of europe between the centuries of 100 ad - 2000 ad and a site with a few maps of "the world" during the middle ages:

http://www.euratlas.com/time1.htm

http://www.euratlas.com/time2.htm

http://www.brown.edu/Departments/Italian_Studies/dweb/images/maps/decworld/polimaps.shtml

Don't know if they are of any help but still.

[elvain]

thanks, I know these ;) in some cases they are little misleading.. but thanks anyway :go:

[Ruga]

Have you heard about the mordvins?

Some more mapsites:

http://www.lib.utexas.edu/maps/historical/history_europe.html#E

http://www.lib.utexas.edu/maps/historical/history_middle_east.html

And if you have seen these as well I may only give you the best of luck as it seems more or less impossible to find any other maps online unless you've got some knowledge as to what you are looking for.

[elvain]

if you check my signature, you'll see, that I know some number historical maps of Europe (I need them for that map) :D

thanks anyway ;)

[Ruga]

I'm assuming you've got some knowledge about what it is you are doing then and must ask you what your knowledge of scandinavian history and such?

as I might be able to help there(As I myself is swedish.).

http://www.zum.de/whkmla/histatlas/scandinavia/swregions.gif

here you have how big sweden was during early medieval times.

[rock n roll]

how can i install only the map changes?

[elvain]

just copy the files to your Knights of Honor directory.
But it is better to use PakMan and extract files from texts.pak into original directory and then copy the mod files into the KoH/texts folder

[Altair]

If I want to uninstall it, can I just move the .pak files from the "backup" to the "paks" folder ?

[maks]

If I want to uninstall it, can I just move the .pak files from the "backup" to the "paks" folder ?

No, you need to delete new folders that are created during the mod installation - those, that didn't exist in the "vanilla KoH". For better reference, see the picture Laudan has put in the thread for his mod, after "Installation instructions":
http://forums.blackseastudios.com/showthread.php?t=15

[Doux]

I think I found two bugs after 10+ hours of gameplay with Holy Rome 1.8 beta:

* When a crusader captured one of my towns, it did not change owner. I got the message "a town was lost", but the crusader is placed out of the town and the town is still mine. It has happened two times to me so far [since I'm playing Islamic Granada].
* In some provinces I conquered and some that are owned by the AI, there constantly appear "progress bars" (see attached image) above the zones (villages, farms etc.). Somehow they disappeared in one province I own, but another province will not get rid of it.. The bars are not above all zones, but some. If they were only graphical it would be no problem, but no resources are 'harvested' from them in this state. Edit: The bars flicker permanently, by the way.

[maks]

I think I found two bugs after 10+ hours of gameplay with Holy Rome 1.8 beta:

* When a crusader captured one of my towns, it did not change owner. I got the message "a town was lost", but the crusader is placed out of the town and the town is still mine. It has happened two times to me so far [since I'm playing Islamic Granada].

I believe i've seen this bug in other KoH modifications, maybe in vanilla too. (Even though I haven't seen a crusader teleportation out of the captured city with my own eyes, I think those massages of a province being conquered, while no changes occured afterwards, refer to this glitch.)

* In some provinces I conquered and some that are owned by the AI, there constantly appear "progress bars" (see attached image) above the zones (villages, farms etc.). Somehow they disappeared in one province I own, but another province will not get rid of it.. The bars are not above all zones, but some. If they were only graphical it would be no problem, but no resources are 'harvested' from them in this state. Edit: The bars flicker permanently, by the way.

In this topic (http://forums.blackseastudios.com/showthread.php?t=1052) I mentioned it can happen in vanilla KoH too. It happens when food reserves are in minus. It's just in elvain's HR mod food goes in minus rather often. It can't be fixed. You can destroy food-consuming buildings and hire a landlord for the province. Once food reaches positive numbers again, rural areas go back to normal. Sometimes you have to wait re-e-eally long. -.-'

[Doux]

I believe i've seen this bug in other KoH modifications, maybe in vanilla too. (Even though I haven't seen a crusader teleportation out of the captured city with my own eyes, I think those massages of a province being conquered, while no changes occured afterwards, refer to this glitch.)Have you ever seen a Crusader succesfully capture a town? I was afraid it would never work, but if it does happen sometimes, that's better.

In this topic (http://forums.blackseastudios.com/showthread.php?t=1052) I mentioned it can happen in vanilla KoH too. It happens when food reserves are in minus. It's just in elvain's HR mod food goes in minus rather often. It can't be fixed. You can destroy food-consuming buildings and hire a landlord for the province. Once food reaches positive numbers again, rural areas go back to normal. Sometimes you have to wait re-e-eally long. -.-'Ah, that explains how one of my towns got rid of it, whereas another still has an enormous food shortage. Thanks!

[elvain]

I think I found two bugs after 10+ hours of gameplay with Holy Rome 1.8 beta:

* When a crusader captured one of my towns, it did not change owner. I got the message "a town was lost", but the crusader is placed out of the town and the town is still mine. It has happened two times to me so far [since I'm playing Islamic Granada].
This is connected to a "Crusader option" to Pillage the town - the crusader recieves money, but the city is still owned by its previous lord. It happens quite often (I think it happens also in vanilla, but it was sooo long I have last played vanilla), when you get a message that kingdom A canquers province B of kingdom C and if you check it, the owner is still the kingdom C.
Correct me if I'm wrong that this happens also in vanilla, please.
* In some provinces I conquered and some that are owned by the AI, there constantly appear "progress bars" (see attached image) above the zones (villages, farms etc.). Somehow they disappeared in one province I own, but another province will not get rid of it.. The bars are not above all zones, but some. If they were only graphical it would be no problem, but no resources are 'harvested' from them in this state. Edit: The bars flicker permanently, by the way.
This is general problem which appeared once I created "negative" food income. I have no idea how to solve it, though I tried.

[maks]

Have you ever seen a Crusader succesfully capture a town? I was afraid it would never work, but if it does happen sometimes, that's better.

It happens quite often.


This is connected to a "Crusader option" to Pillage the town - the crusader recieves money, but the city is still owned by its previous lord. It happens quite often (I think it happens also in vanilla, but it was sooo long I have last played vanilla), when you get a message that kingdom A canquers province B of kingdom C and if you check it, the owner is still the kingdom C.

So it's not even a bug. Cool. :)

[TaghMor]

Hey nice mod, but how come Hobilars power has been reduced, and they are available to all of Europe?.. Hobilars are distinctly Irish.
And how do I change it back to normal?
Another small problem is that the Kingdom Advantage "Silk route" no longer doubles merchant income.. it increases it by %50. And the cost of the two tradegoods needed for it easily outweighs the increase in income..

[elvain]

hi.

Thanks a lot for your words. I'm glad you like the mod.

As for hobilars, yes I might reduce their power little bit (or rather I enforced other units, so relative strength of hobilars was reduced - honestly I don't remember it properly now)

They are no way available on the entire map. Only for Irish earldoms and Ireland. All other kingdoms can buy them only in Ireland. It must have been some "bug"

As for the Silk route bonus: it was reduced in order to make the game harder. It gave the player too big bonuse, especialy if you consider that Ai hardly achieves these kingdom advantages.

[TaghMor]

ahh ok.. makes sense.

and thanks for your efforts.. i always thought this game would be awesome if the a.i was a little better/harder.

[Wenceslaus]

Is still in its beta stage? Slight tweaking, fine tuning I'm there :) (If you need any help)

[Daniel]

This is amazing mate, very good job you've done there!

[redsky]

Since the first post of the thread has not been updated since 2008 can any one put please a print screen of how the map looks?

And what countries can u unite etc ?

[Madnez]

^^^^^^
What he said.

[siwaan]

hi, first of all, this is the best mod I played.

map is better than other maps, of course not perfect, but really good enough.

it was a bit strange to see that higher kingdom power means expenditure, but upkeepeng happy polulation needs cost usually, so it was a good decision to implement.

I would be happy to see in future nearly every buildings to be upgradable, it could result in more free building slots (like tax collector->market) thus more building types. but this is okay now :)

What I miss (and from other mods too) is a more gradual uprgades of weapons and armors, taking into account the era. for example plate armor was available only later than chain and scale armour. but some kinds of hardened leather armors were used widely in early ages as a cheap solution. Maybe a leather armoury - chain mail armoury - plate armoury upgrade chain would be fine. spear to halberd uprgade is a good example.

And maybe if cavalry would be a bit cheaper it could result in more medieval feeling battles, because in this period battles were fought mainly by cavalry. But in the game infantry is now very dominant, and too organized, too disciplined. In medieval times only professional mercenary infantry was good enough, and some special groups like Byzantine heavy spearmen infantry. The professional army was mainly feudal armies, mainly knights and their sergents. And nomad cavalry.

[onedreamer]

there were hardly professional armies at the times of KoH. But I agree with what you said, Cavalry should be much more disciplined compared to infantry than what happens in KoH, there are far too many advanced types of infantry (especially men at arms, which I kinda would limit to mercenary-only), and cavalry charge should route enemy infantry much more easily. I don't agree making cavalry cheaper though, battles weren't fought mainly by cavalry, rather this was dominant on the battlefield.
One other thing I would like to see is mercenary units not replenishable.

[Mathyas Rex]

The problem is there are no special mercenary units in the game, they are random units from another faction.

About the cavalry charges - I don't think there is any morale penalty from getting charged by cavalry, the way I see it the morale is tied to losing/killing enemies. The more units a squad loses, the morale goes down, when it inflicts casualties morale goes up. It's that simple. When a cavalry unit charges it inflict more casualties, so there is a slight difference. Furthermore some units (the more advanced ones like templars, knights etc.)have a morale bonus which makes them harder to rout - more 'disciplined', while others (poor units like slavonic bowmen) have a morale penalty.

But KoH is more focused more on the 'big picture' , the campaign, unlike other games of the genre which tend to focus on battles. It's similar to EU where you don't have battles(if I remember it right).

[onedreamer]

don't tell me, I don't even use the battle option (too easy :P).
But I don't ask for any special mercenary unit, only that mercenaries be flagged as such and can't receive reinforcements in the player's castles.
About cavalry charge I see what you mean, however if infantry was mostly swordsmen, archers and spearmen (as they actually were) they would rout more easily, and I also think that spearmen shouldn't be *that* effective against cavalry, because they weren't until the introduction of swiss pike.
Armies that made a difference and that were well equipped were mercenary armies. I think they are well implemented in the game except for the fact that they can receive reinforcements while they shouldn't.

[maks]

Since the mercenary thing is hardly moddable, it looks more like a suggestion for KoH2 (http://forums.blackseastudios.com/showthread.php?t=138).

[onedreamer]

btw the installation instructions have the following errors:

point 6: extracting the packs won't create the images and movies folders. You have the movies folder because of the "no intro workaround", and the images folder will be there only after you extract the mod.
point 10: see above.

[vLabz]

Hi everyone,
I plan to translate this mod and mod HARD into french.

The thing is I have no clue why the install procedure of this mod requires to unpack original files. Forgive my simplistic vision but why don't we simply copy the mod folders into our KoH folder ?

When I look at HARD invasion mod, copying the files is enough, no need to unpack anything.

Can someone tell me how the game loads files ?
isn't it :
- if the file is found in the folders directly, load this file.
- if the file is found in a pak file, load the file from the pak
?

by the way I have difficulties to make this mod run. Crash before the games fully loads (don't get to the first screen). Vanilla works, mod HARD works. Beta map changes only works.

[hunterHun]

The folders write over the .pak files. I think, the Texts folder is the only that you must translate.

[vLabz]

Exactly, I did a bunch of comparisons, the only differences are in the Texts folder (as I suspected but never sure)

I finally managed to make the game work (maybe because of the french version).

Translation in progress for both mods.