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View Full Version : Worldshift's not the best of both worlds.. yet


Stromko
13 Feb 2008, 17:07
These are just my first impressions, so forgive me if I'm off-base, but it feels to me like the RPG aspects are way too abstract or simplistic to get excited about, while the RTS aspects are underdeveloped. The game is very polished graphically and so far has been pretty stable for me, it looks/feels like an AAA title but the design seems to leave a LOT to be desired.

1) Loot isn't exciting. "Oh joy, a 2% to whatever! But what the hell is this thing? Is it a sword, is it a new gun, maybe a spiffy/silly helmet? Nope! Boooring!" (edit: Actually some relics are named for boots or hats or whatever, but they're still completely interchangeable)

2) Combat seems to borrow more from old-school MMORPGs than it does RTS games. Trouble is, people only put up with MMORPG combat because they're extremely invested with their characters and combat is the ultimate test for said character. You don't even have to tap the autoattack button, the only thing it seems to borrow from RTSes is watching, not doing.

What makes it less RTS than MMORPG is the composition of your forces and the enemies. No bases, no capture points, no overall strategic situation to consider. What you basically get is a bunch of static spawns that are just milling around until you come up to bop them on the head. You have no reason to think of your forces as anything but a single entity, even if they're a huge pack you're going to just keep them all together as a big clump.

Once the battle is joined, you can trigger a few powers, but we're basically back to MMORPG, watching cooldowns and seeing green, blue, and red bars go up and down. Joy. This'd work if we cared deeply for the overall situation, but..

3) There is no feeling of investment in your character or your forces. Your lord-commander is just a carbon copy clone, no more unique or interesting than the rest of your forces. You can choose loot for a given side and therefore 'invest' in it, but, it still isn't yours, you have no reason to feel a kind of ownership over it. You don't even have a class, or gender, or hairstyle! It would appear a high-level character of a given faction will be identical to any other, same weapons, same feel, perhaps even same powers.

All your other units are even more disposable and lacking in identity. A tribe warrior is a tribe warrior, in form and function they are all identical no matter who leads them. Only a single upgrade slot isn't enough to imagine tweaking their role in the slightest. Tell me that at the highest level if I could somehow slip into someone else's shoes, I wouldn't use their units exactly like I'd use my units, that I would need to adjust my strategy at least a LITTLE to account for their differing abilities.

No? Then why should I bother?
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So my point is, what we have here is a bunch of soulless percentage-boosts and disposable clone armies that we'd expect from an RTS, coupled with the mindless combat and silly, contrived situations of a last-gen MMORPG.

Shouldn't it be the best of both worlds, shouldn't we care for our characters and their henchmen, and feel unique and special for all the time invested, while being challenged tactically and putting into practice a grand strategy to win the day?

I think the most important thing is getting players hooked, and the way to do that is to make them excited about what they're fighting for. Interesting abilities, the ability to express themselves through the look/feel of their army and their hero, loot that /matters/, all that good stuff. Worry about PvP balance later if it's only a small part of the experience, instead make PvE /worth/ the grind and worry about making all these diverse sides, diverse loot, diverse abilities play together fairly later.

Lukin
13 Feb 2008, 18:15
That sounds very hard and quite different to what i read in WS-Reviews until now. Unfortunally im not able to play yet, so i cant see it myself.

oargestory
13 Feb 2008, 18:26
Well, sadly I think you're not getting the point of the game.

There are many different items for your ability grid, only the "normal" grey ones, which are the most common, give you just 2% to armor or something like that, the better ones give really cool bonuses !

And you still got the different specializations per faction, which you can customize to your liking, so I really think that you'll have to use different strategies for different builds.

okitu
13 Feb 2008, 18:46
At this time i sadly have to agree with Stromko.

I played alot of wh40k and wow over the last years. And both games just pwn their genre (yeye, wow has no real pvp, but therefore i played wh40k).

As i heard of worldshift, i was so amazed of these genre being melted into one new type of game and the possibility to play cooperative missions, with all u get from rts and orpg (items, tactics, strategy and whatever)

Even the first look at the game nearly destroyed my idea. Only one single item-slot for each unit. And even my leader-unit is just... a unit. BULLSHIT! officers? i thought of some sub-heros that u could lvl up and equipe them too (lke your own small party of heroes) bullshit again ...

Thats the part about my first impression.

Now i tried the single-player-campaign and by now it sucks. Yeah it really sucks. the difficulty is ok, but where is the skill really needed? the first annoying mission was the one with the explosive lava and the late checkpoint (u die 10 times, and have to start agian ...). Then later the mission to get into sarling u stand around waiting the patrols to pass u for 90% of the mission-time. The first fighting-mission against the spiders was ok, but much too easy and short (ok that could be balanced). The campaign tries to tell a story, but you dont get nothing from the characters, the area, the cities (which u cant ever see). The items are useless, and all fights are the same.

Move -> Attack -> Wait -> Next Fight plz...


Im really disappointed at current state of the game.



BUT: here we are to help! I will start to post as much suggestions as i can to help getting some of my ideas over to you.

Frujin
13 Feb 2008, 19:30
@Stromko: I would like to give you a bit longer answer than simply a few words. So I reserve my right to do that for a bit later.

ezsteel
13 Feb 2008, 19:32
Even the first look at the game nearly destroyed my idea. Only one single item-slot for each unit. And even my leader-unit is just... a unit. BULLSHIT! officers? i thought of some sub-heros that u could lvl up and equipe them too (lke your own small party of heroes) bullshit again ...


Actually, there are items (higher level) affecting more than one unit. I was in Deadly Safari a few minutes ago and inspected the other guys - they had items affecting 4 or 5 stats on different units.

As for the tactics, there seem to be tactics involved. In that same game, we encountered a boss. Being a complete newbie, I was mostly trying not to get in the way and from what I saw watching the other two guys - there is tanking, healing and dps-ing involved; also watching for add-ons, etc. The thing is, the fight was a good fun, even though I was mostly franticly doing random stuff!

Anyway, you can get a clue what the higher tier items are like if you inspect some of the older players in the channel. Even though the items will be revamped (Frujin said), this will give a hint to what to expect.

About the story, characters and stuff: there are no voices and music yet. I guess it will be much more attractive when these get into the game.

Stromko
13 Feb 2008, 23:23
That does sound a bit better Ezsteel, but still not sure if it completely captivates me but at least multiple effects helps offset having so few upgrade slots.

Mission 4 in the campaign did improve my perception of the game, first of all having a couple heroes and a healer helped me see how very powerful they are when they work together. Using confuse to take aggro and casting heals to keep the 'tank' alive, then freezing foes in place so I can run back and reinforce. I started to really appreciate my units once I had any hope of keeping them alive.

It was the first mission that really seemed to demand, and reward, tactics and being a true participant. Every mission up until then was just a puzzle only solvable by repetition or a speed-trial in comparison. I got my first Rare item there and its stats seemed more worth the effort than the other stuff I'd seen.

The fifth mission really seems like a letdown in comparison. Trying to figure out timing on geothermal activity in order to avoid instant death just wasn't what I was expecting and wasn't the kind of challenge I wanted to take on, so I think that's as far as I'm getting in the campaign for now.

Doing more co-op missions may give me more of a positive impression but the last two times I tried it failed the same way, though yesterday I was able to join one and get into the map. I'm running version 0.8.3.18165 with XP service pack 2. On the map loading screen it showed the host and then myself as loaded fairly quickly, but the third player as not loaded. It hanged there forever (I waited 20 minutes) and I couldn't get out of the program in any way, had to hit reset. When I got back online the host said that it showed ME as the one that wasn't loaded. Started again with a different third player, same exact thing happened.

The program needs to be able to cancel out or shut off gracefully first of all, requiring a hard reboot is much worse than the thing failing in the first place. It's possible that this issue is just an intermittent thing, or very possibly due to my own settings not being correct, but I hope by the time WS goes retail it plays nicer with the OS and doesn't require a hard reboot no matter what happens.

edit: Ahh, hosting is working. I'm in a game now.

ezsteel
13 Feb 2008, 23:44
Well, I only played the first mission (was focused on Safari and practice games mostly), and it seems to me that some proper character speech and music will dramatically improve the experience (loved the lightning effects, btw), once they come in the game. Perhaps the cinematic played before the first mission (which is not in the pre-beta, but you can see the stub when you start it) will also setup the origins of the story and the characters.

Also, have in mind that the missions will be much more polished and balanced as clearly stated in the introductory note here http://forums.blackseastudios.com/showthread.php?t=304

Dynelven
14 Feb 2008, 03:16
Even the first look at the game nearly destroyed my idea. Only one single item-slot for each unit. And even my leader-unit is just... a unit. BULL****! officers? i thought of some sub-heros that u could lvl up and equipe them too (lke your own small party of heroes) bull**** again ...

Could you try to refrain from cursing while giving your review? Its not really necessary.

DanteOne
14 Feb 2008, 07:11
i totally agree with stromko. the game needs more depth. its always keeping units together. there is no reason why i should seperate them. the creeps are to heavy for small groups. no strategical points to hold or raid... even ressources-base of enmies cant be attacked with only some units cause its way too hard. moreover the game gives benefits for everything i do. killing bosses, completing missions, playing deathmatch BUT why the hell a there creep groups in game? i get nothing from them. there is no sense in killing them. they are annoying.

for example deadly safari. there are so many creeps in game. seems like there are all copied groups. the map is just rushing to bosses, killing, winning but these creeps are annoying and give no rewards.