suggestions by Stilgar

[Stilgar]

many more to come but first and most important:

add an attack-move command

this is absolutely mandatory

RESOLVED

[Stilgar]

No command queue?
Give it top priority (right after the attack move on the list)

[Stilgar]

I have trouble clicking on some enemies. Please enlarge the enemy selection zone. On the first mission I have a hard time clicking on the crocodyles and I tend to move my troops towards them which is exactly the opposite of what I want.


Also make the selection sticky or make it an option. Deselecting units when you click on the terrain is pointless there is no reason to want to do that.

[Stilgar]

Same goes for losing selection when you click on the unit information panel.

If you are gonna use the most important keys on the keyboard for the camera (which I find pointless) add some rotation shortcuts. For example Q and E can rotate with center of the rotation the view point and z and x can rotate the camera around the point we are looking at. Myth had camera like this and handling the camera was important for Myth and part of the gameplay. Handling the camera is not essential to your game so you'd better use wasd for some other shortcuts and not scrolling.

[Stilgar]

You'd better make the units bigger. Like 30% bigger. And don't pull this "just zoom" on me.

[Stilgar]

Bind heroes to F1-F5 buttons like in WarCraft III
OK... officers whatever you wish.

[Stilgar]

I've played for several single player missions and I have real trouble understanding what I have to do. Right now I am struggling with the mission where you plant explosives and this moves the guards away from the way of Eji and Gu... (most names suck). At first I thought I have to plant all explosives before making the trip. I got to some places where I cannot activate the check point and I still couldn't get how I am supposed to go through the mission. You'd better create some educational approach similar to the one Valve implement in their games. Show>Test in a save environment>Go in the wild. Especially for missions that are not straightforward (like most of yours)

[Stilgar]

Maps (in the missions) are relatively dark and have too many objects like bushes trees and rocks. It is hard to make out objects that are important for the game (units) from other objects. Also some objects like trees and arches obscure the camera. You've made an effort to make them transparent but they are still distracting. You'd better remove objects that are higher than the camera.

[Stilgar]

shortcuts on the right side of the keyboard (L, I) are bad. Try to avoid them as they are hard to press with the left hand. When typing people get used to pressing keys on the left side with the left hand and on the right side with the right hand but in games the right hand is on the mouse

[Stilgar]

The cursor for targeting a skill should be changed. It is too similar to the normal cursor. You'd better change it to round cursor or something like that. Color-only change would not work.

[Stilgar]

the ctrl key is not very good for attack move because when I want to send 2 groups on attack move I often resave them instead of sending them on attack-move. However it is much better than nothing.

[Stilgar]

BTW good job on the "under attack" information. It is cool that it is only displayed when you are not looking at the fight.
Also waterfalls look really cool and the lightening effect rulz. Be sure not to overuse it.

[Stilgar]

Rippers' explosions are too obtrusive. In fact at first I thought they caused damage. There is no point in such big explosion for death animation.

[Stilgar]

When I use attack-move for unit that cannot attack it just stops. Please fix that so that we can move non-attacking units together with attacking units

[Frujin]

Eji and the Resonator?

pff ..

[Stilgar]

I don't know what Resonator is but what I was thinking about was the Surgeon.

[Stilgar]

It seems to me that when an unit is attacked by another unit it automatically switches it's target to the current attacker. This is not good behaviour because what you expect is to finish off it's current target. The unit should switch target only if it is attacking something harmless (like building) the fact that the current target is attacking another unit does not mean I don't want it killed.

(Did you understand what this?)

[Frujin]

I did, but it is not the case:

There are two possibilities - if you give an order to a unit to attack something - it will until target is dead or out of reach. If the unit choose target on its own it will switch eventually if there is closer or better target nearby or if the original target was harmless.

[zlobber]

does this mean i can micro 5 units to attack 1 and take virtually no damage because the attacked unit is changing targets all the time ?

[Mishony]

When I use attack-move for unit that cannot attack it just stops.

On the contrary, units that cannot attack (like Eji and Psi Resonator) didn't stop at all, they just blindly moved to the destination (which was also not a good behavior).
With the next patch they will stop when they see enemy.

I don't know what Resonator is but what I was thinking about was the Surgeon.

Indeed, Surgoens did not move at all when you told them to attack-move.
With the next patch they will stop to fight and/or heal on their way.

[Mishony]

does this mean i can micro 5 units to attack 1 and take virtually no damage because the attacked unit is changing targets all the time ?

Not really, because the enemy unit will not change targets that fast (it will only switch targets if not explicitly ordered to attack a specific target and only if the new target is noticeably "better" than the current).
What you could achieve with such a micro is to spread enemy's damage across your units, eventually leaving the combat with several wounded units but zero dead. As a matter of fact, this tactic is usually a good approach against some bosses in PvE, but it could be used in PvP if the enemy player is not paying attention.

[Stilgar]

Switching to 'better' target is not good behaviour. What is your definition of 'better'? I hate the way I lose the automatic focused fire I get with attack move. Actually focused fire is always better unless some of the units are out of range. Attack-move gives automatic focused fire on the very first unit but that behaviour is broken when units switch to 'better' target. Unless you have some VERY GOOD definition of 'better' which I doubt.

[Stilgar]

That's it I won't play singleplayer any more
It is harder and longer than it is interesting. Unless you have some very good storyline in the videos your story sux. The lack of save system is annoying and the fact that I lose the saved checkpoints when I quit the game is even more annoying especially when I quit the game due to crash.

[Frujin]

Okay.. thanks for the feedback. Farewell and good luck in the future!

[Stilgar]

I didn't say I won't play multiplayer:)
However I decided to clear the stuff in the
C:\Documents and Settings\All Users\Application Data\WorldShift\Cache\
folder (I reasoned that it is not needed if it is either not needed anymore or will be rebuilt as it is cache) and now the game won't start. It won't even crash.

[Stilgar]

The folders in Application Data (both All Users and <User>) stay after uninstall

[Frujin]

now the game won't start. It won't even crash.

.. it needs long time to rebuild what u did delete :(

[okitu]

Never call a folder "Cache" if u dont want the people to delete it!

Cache and Temp are every day victims of cleanups! Whereever they are...

[Loshia]

This cache folder is created in "All Users" directory because it contains time consuming data that is build once and then used by every user that is playing the game on this machine. If you delete it then the game will start fine but you have to wait anywhere between 5 and 20 minutes on the splash screen depending on how fast is your machine.

All game created folders, i.e. WorldShift folder in "All Users\Application Data" and in "CURRENT_USER\Application Data" and the game files themselves will be removed when you uninstall the game. Because of the bug in the current installer it will not remove the game folder in All Users directory but that will be fixed in the next version of the installer.

[Stilgar]

Frankly, I am very disappointed with the way the game installs.
1st compiling stuff on my machine? WTF? Is this Linux or something?
2nd I know that lots of software is doing this but I do hate this software too. Can't you just have copy/paste style installation like some software developers (including the best game developers) do? I really suffer to see folders in application data both all users and current user and registry keys and stuff installed in my windows folder.

[okitu]

Lol @ Stilgar

if every developer would do, what u think they are doing, then every update for every game u know would be about 500% larger!

Think about good old Warcraft3.

If they come up with an update, where they just change let's say one unit, and one texture for this unit. As the unit is used on every map the games holds, u would have to download ALL MAPS at full size again!

The recompiling-way -> we change some simple things inside the map-file viola! + Update-size is about 100k not 100mb


Compiling is the way to do it. Don't talk stuff u know nothing about =)

[Stilgar]

All I know is that the quoted WarCraft III puts a single entry (with the install destination) in the registry, does not touch the Windows folder and does not deal with the Application Data folders. Also the game is moveable around with copy/paste (although you'll have to set the registry key if you want to patch) and it just works. Not only if you move it on the current windows installation, not only if you move it from XP to Vista but also if you move it to an entirely different machine. Everything is saved in the game's folder as Google (a.k.a God) intended.

BTW maps in WarCraft III does not need to be recompiled. What they do when they want to patch a map is sending a new map file. I have a good reason to believe that they do not compile anything when patching. However my bitching is not as much about the compiling (although I do not approve it) but about spreading the game installation in 12423524 different folders.

[DanteOne]

and warcraft is copied on thousands of machines... your a minority with your oppinion... noone moves his game every day on hard disk...

[Frujin]

@Stilgar: Warcraft 3 is pretty old software already. Now we have Vista and we have number of Games for Windows regulations that have to be followed. I will be happier, if you focus on providing us with constructive feedback on the game and reports on repeatable bugs.

[Stilgar]

I may be a minority but I am sure none of the people who do not share my opinion have any problems with WarCraft and I do have problems with every game that is not easily movable.

[Stilgar]

@Stilgar: Warcraft 3 is pretty old software already. Now we have Vista and we have number of Games for Windows regulations that have to be followed. I will be happier, if you focus on providing us with constructive feedback on the game and reports on repeatable bugs.

I am just protecting my point because it was attacked several times.

BTW I find the way the map goes dark when aliens build their buildings unnecessary and unpleasent especially when you constantly switch views with light areas. Is there any gameplay implication of the dark space? Like reduced sight range, faster regeneration for aliens, etc?

[Loshia]

1. Compiling stuff will be removed for the final version of the installer.
2. Yes, we can make copy/paste installation type of the game but at the end it is something that makes the game more complicated to maintain without giving anything really useful to the typical end user.
3. All User and Current User folders are made exactly with this purpose in mind - well, to keep various programs' related stuff. And there is simply no other folder in the system that the game can write to and keep user's settings saved when the user is non administrator and that includes the folder where the game is installed by default (Program Files). This is a requirement if you want to pass Games For Windows tests.
4. The game does not copy any files to any system folder besides creating Start Menu shortcuts and installing the MS Visual C++ 2005 Redistributable and Direct X 9.0c both of which cannot be simply "copied" but have to be installed because 1) Microsoft says so and 2) it simply doesn't work if you copy the DLL because it has to be registered with the system and that's the way it works with all C++ libraries from now on.

[Stilgar]

This is a requirement if you want to pass Games For Windows tests.

Now this is a fair explaination.

Is there a way to make the game work if one has installed C++ redistributable (correct me if I am wrong but for now there is just one C++ redistributable package for all applications)? My pain is the Vista installation. I want to be able to run my XP installation of the game without installing it again on Vista.

[Loshia]

Is there a way to make the game work if one has installed C++ redistributable (correct me if I am wrong but for now there is just one C++ redistributable package for all applications)?

The redistributable depends on the version of the Visual Studio the game has been compiled with. Currently there are three versions: VS 2005, VS 2005 SP1 and VS 2008 and every version uses it's own redistributable. And more versions are to come, i.e. VS 2008 SP1 eventually. So basically it is a Microsoft's requirement now, i.e. the game to bring along any VS redistributable it requires. Same goes with the Direct X version. Because you do not need exactly the latest version but the version the game has been compiled against. Which, again, comes and gets installed by the game itself.

I want to be able to run my XP installation of the game without installing it again on Vista.

Now after all the explanations about how the installer works and what it exactly changes how it comes that you are still unwilling to install the game on your Vista system? Make a restore point or use a system software to monitor exactly what gets changed in the system and you will see that there is nothing else installed besides the things I have described in earlier posts.

[Stilgar]

I am against installing any software as a principle. I try very hard to avoid installing software I am likely to ever uninstall and if I need to I tend to install it on the XP installation to keep the Vista installation clean. It's not that I do not believe what you say the installer does but I do not believe what Windows does when installing software and more importantly what it does when uninstalling.

Are the C++ redistributables backward compatible or they are installed side by side? I have Visual C++ 2008 Express installed. Does that mean I have the needed redistributables?

[DanteOne]

if you dont want to install software sell your pc and go and buy a xbox, ps3 or whatever-console... its a pc. it wont work without installing anything. even windows is installed.

[Stilgar]

Once upon a time software was not installed but copied. Software DOES NOT NEED installation. Installation is supposed to make deployment easier and reduce problems but it usually does the opposite (from my experience). I would buy Xbox if competitive gaming was stronger on that platform but competitive games are stronger on pc in both RTS and FPS genres. What is more I use my PC for much more than just games although games are most important for me.

[Loshia]

Windows does nothing when installing WorldShift. The installer that is used is Nullsoft's NSIS which does not use the built-in Windows installer. The redistributables are installed side-by-side, which means that they will NOT interfere with other versions. And most important - the game's installer does NOT uninstall any redistributables, even the ones that come when installing the game. This is also a requirement from Microsoft. So the game's uninstaller only deletes game's files in program files/all users/current user and that's all.

[Stilgar]

Please remove the visual effect (FOV change?) near Cult buildings ASAP.

Rule 1 of usablity: Have good defaults. I felt very stupid when I was playing with a single Lord Commander and the enemy came with a whole bunch of troops. I thought you switched the concept from the closed beta and never thought that if I don't choose units I won't get anything.

Why is that the third officer of the same type costs 200(haven't checked with 4th)

The units' responsiveness seems somewhat strange when using attack-move. It seems that they will always move at a minimum distance even if there is an enemy in range. Fix that pls.

[Rynn]

Here are my suggestions I came up with in no particular order:


Add a confirmation dialog when distributing points in the Ability Grid. Avoids mis-placed points. ("What does this do? *click* Set a point! Irreversible for now." Yay?)


Maybe an option for bigger Icon sizes. At max resolution, they are tiny...


Option for Numerical HP display


Show Squad Numbers, i.e. by selecting squad "1" you'd see a small "1" floating above them and/or in the bottom left selection.


Add the option to map keys freely. And by that, I also mean support for mouse-buttons. Latest mice come with more than three nowdays, and while it's possible to remap keys via the software, it is much more convenient to do so in-game.


Make the selection circle somewhat thicker/bigger or maybe fancier? *thinks of CnC 3 where you had the faction logo as selection indicator* At the moment, this tiny circle hardly indicates which units were selected. This goes even more for higher resolutions.


Perhaps more in-depth options for GFX + Audio in general. AF option is nice already, but what about AA, Shader Quality, suppressing/reducing visual effects from teammates etc. Maybe put it into an "Advanced" tab, so newbies don't get confused.


Clean up the translations. Some units also have seperators "." followed by their class name. I can't remember which in particular, but has been spotted on the "Cult" side.


My friend said, the voice acting was kind of dull. I can't speak for this, have yet to see a cut scene, but i DO noticed, that unity only have about.. ummm... 3 ack sounds? Maybe this gets changed in the future, but for the sake of variety, more would be better. Maybe even some hilarious ones...
Speaking of sounds: Did I hear a CnC1 Machine gun sound there? Umm... Something else might be a better choice.


The music doesn't play when it should. Most of the game is silent, although the music is actually nice and not too pompous. (Fed up with battle horns and choirs yet? Seems to be what every game uses nowdays... or metal beats. o_O)


Ability to draw on the Minimap (Planning Mode) and set alert flags, be it on the battlefield (smoke markers, beacons....) or the minimap (flashing icon). Not everyone can or wants to use voice chat, but this eases teamplay alot, by pointing out attack routes, or incoming foes.


Make the Minimap: a) More compass- styled, with NESW directions or b) change shape to something else than the (boring) square, and add the Compass direction into that frame. Personally, I found the Minimap-scrolling directions confusing after just a few camera adjustments. There *is* an indicator, but it is not all too helpful. BTW: Is there a reset camera option? That'd also help a great deal.


Eye candy: Change the UI ingame to reflect the current faction played. It doesn't help the game in any way, but it's the small things that make life (and a game...) enjoyable.


"Take All" Option for loot, also a button for automatic inventory sorting (eventually with options here aswell, sort by class/rarity/ascending/decending...)


Better tooltips. At the moment, they only give away a tiny bit of info, which doesn't help new players much. Color code it, like "unit xyz has a chance to spread out its shield occassionally to unit abc" <- color the name of the affected unit.. Point out what the unit does i.e. tanker/supporter/healer/flanker.


This has been requested already: Save login password.


Formations. While Strategy games are about moving units smartly around the maps, you sometimes gotta move them all at once, and that's why formations and unit behaviour have become a staple of these games. Right now, you have to beg the tank to stay at the front to take first aggro, when moving the entire army around.


Waypoints to send out a scout on patrol on its own, away from the main group.


That's all I can think of for now. Not that the list got a bit lenghty already....

Rynn's more-or-less-smart final words:
World Shift plays refreshingly different from those War-Star-what-not-craft- thingies, like a hidden gem in the endless flood of cloned games. Polish it, and it will shine brightly! :go:

[ezsteel]

Some good suggestions here.
And I guess some of them should be very easy to do. The alien base effect is quite annoying and distracting indeed. And the music bit is true also, music is rather scarce.

BTW, you can ping on the minimap. Use Alt + click. Also there is a shader quality option already in the settings.

[Rynn]

Some good suggestions here.
And I guess some of them should be very easy to do. The alien base effect is quite annoying and distracting indeed. And the music bit is true also, music is rather scarce.

BTW, you can ping on the minimap. Use Alt + click. Also there is a shader quality option already in the settings.

Oh must've overloooked that. Thank you :)

What i tried to say: Many games dumb down the Options too far, leaving no room to tailor it as close as possible to different system specs. The "Options" menu is good already, but more choices are always welcome. :]

Also 100% agree on the alien effect. It is annoying.

Edit: Also wishing to be able to save "starting decks" + warning if no units were chosen. Makes no sense to start without any units in a regular Co-Op game...

[Rynn]

Some other things I came up with:

Add a Party-Overview, that either shows the Field Leaders' HP and/or overall HP of his army to inform other Players of their status. Right now, In a Co-op game, other people remain *relatively* clueless about their teammates.

Change the ALT- Healthbars, so that they get color-coded frames. Dark Red (so there won't be mistakes with the vivid Red player color) for creeps/bosses, and either Blue or Teamcolor for allies.

Minor suggestion: Add Class-Icons next to the ALT-HP bars, Sword for tanker, Cross for healer, Pistol or Bow/Arrow for ranged types etc. to allow quick identification of the target.

Quickchat (Radial Menu) would be sweet. Every shooter got them, and every MMO names 'em differently (aka Emotes) but they essentially do the same: Quick Player2Player communication without talking/typing. If that's too much work, then make things announcable in a GuildWars-esque fashion. Select something, and it says stuff like "I'm targeting Howling Horror" essentially meaning "Heal the tank please". Or at the very least, add a text-chat line for the target marks... "I am targeting -insert Foe here-" or "Everyone attack "xyz" ! " A small bell/beep sound would be great aswell.

Speaking of which: give text messages a subtle blip, and private messages a different blip. As of now, if your eyes ain't camping the chat log, you'll never know for sure if someone said something. Otherwise the Chat window works -perfectly- as it should. I really appreciate the "fade when idle".

A wider selection of Player-Icon choices.

More comfortable main-chat, add a dropdown list or popup menu to choose a channel. Assign backspace to "reply to last private message recieved".

Add a small text near the black hole saying "recycle" or "delete item". Many people seem to be confused about its function or even existance. (Or they are simply too lazy... :confused: )

Allow side-by-side comparison of currently employed artifacts and new ones, point out the changes e.g. +4% , -10.

[Frujin]

Quickchat (Radial Menu) would be sweet. Every shooter got them, and every MMO names 'em differently (aka Emotes) but they essentially do the same: Quick Player2Player communication without talking/typing. If that's too much work, then make things announcable in a GuildWars-esque fashion. Select something, and it says stuff like "I'm targeting Howling Horror" essentially meaning "Heal the tank please". Or at the very least, add a text-chat line for the target marks... "I am targeting -insert Foe here-" or "Everyone attack "xyz" ! " A small bell/beep sound would be great aswell.

There are 4 visual marks that can be used. Press F5 to F8 to see the effect.
Also there is voice-lines in-game. You can type /<number> (like /1, /2, .. /22 etc) to "emote" to allies or //1, //2, ... etc to emote to all players. Notice the double slash in second case.

[Rynn]

There are 4 visual marks that can be used. Press F5 to F8 to see the effect.
Also there is voice-lines in-game. You can type /<number> (like /1, /2, .. /22 etc) to "emote" to allies or //1, //2, ... etc to emote to all players. Notice the double slash in second case.

I know about the visual markers, but they don't appear on the minimap, nor do they give text or acoustic feedback (Unless I need new glasses and overlooked that, too. :D ).
A pulse/flash or some icon on the minimap would be helpful.

But I didn't know about these commands.... (And i wouldn't have known, given that they are oddly named at the moment... :p ) thanks for the hint, I'll try that.

[Stilgar]

Now that you've removed the annoying effect from Cult buildings it is time for the other very important visual improvement. Make the units bigger. 15% for regular units 30% for hero units sound reasonable.

[Stilgar]

It is high time you make the map visible in deathmatch games. At least the minimap. I am tired of walking around looking for the resource nodes. Is this WarCraft II or something? We are in 2008 even StarCraft is patched to have a map preview. I wonder if there is a modern game that hides the map in deathmatch mode.

[Frujin]

I wonder if there is a modern game that hides the map in deathmatch mode.

There is - WorldShift.

[Stilgar]

There is - WorldShift.

Either this or it is not modern:)

[Battlehawk]

Always been in favor of a fog of war playstyle in stategy games as i think it adds "realism" and depth. However it might be nice to have options for the level of "fog".

As a Dune fan i would have expected you to appreciate the fog of war concept since it features so prominently in those novels. Just think about the Fremen buying of the spacing guild to keep the sky above Dune clear of satellites.

Personally i think that aslong as fog of war isn't outdated irl it won't be outdated in games. And i can't really imagine a war without "fog".

[Stilgar]

No one has any problems with Fog of War. The problem is the unexplored map. Fog of war is when you cannot see the units in places where you do not have units or buildings. That is OK. The problem is when you are starting with unexplored terrain (i. e. you don't know where the resources are) so luck becomes a major factor because you cannot create any meaningful strategy with no information about terrain and resources.

[Battlehawk]

No one has any problems with Fog of War. The problem is the unexplored map. Fog of war is when you cannot see the units in places where you do not have units or buildings. That is OK. The problem is when you are starting with unexplored terrain (i. e. you don't know where the resources are) so luck becomes a major factor because you cannot create any meaningful strategy with no information about terrain and resources.

With some good scouting the luck factor aint too big imo. Personally i rather have a game with a little more luck and more anticipation than a game with less luck where everything is clear from the start. In the end it's just a design choice which doesn't make a game modern or outdated.

[Stilgar]

So in WarCraft III, StarCraft, CoH, etc. everything is clear from the start?

[DeGraffenried]

In warcraft and starcraft, yes you can see the whole map if I remember right.. I think this is a great idea......

suggestion though... This should be optional depending on how you want your game play to be.. If you want that challange or not..

In my oppinion, I don't like being able to see the whole map at first.. You should only be able to see what your units can see, or scanning devices.

But its also nice to see everything too.

BUT!!!!!!!!!!!!... My commpliments to the makers of this game. outstanding, incredible, and wholly crap!!!! I have many suggestions though, and I ask that the developers dont think I am picking at your hard work, I just have some crazzy ideas.... I hope that my ideas could increase the game play of your game.... cheers..... I just got finished downloading another update. how many of them are they? I am on 1.0.0 now.. lol.......:bash: ;)

[DeGraffenried]

Lol.... while I am waiting for the next update 1.0.5 I figured I would take this time to type something *laughs*..

I don't know if any one has mentioned this, but it would sure be nice to save your password when signing in.. like in msn live hotmail, where you sign in, it ask if you want to sign in as the same user or another user, when you click same user you have your info saved and it automaticly signs you in.. that would be nice.. not like its a big deal, its just one of those things that slows me down.. lol... I hate slow things....

*still waiting*

[Stilgar]

I think the boss unit should be immune to fear-style skills. I think even the other hero units should be immune but I will be OK with shorter duration for them. Right now the most important thing in a battle is who will cast his crowd control skill first. Although you can win a battle if you do not cast first it is too much of an advantage.

[nOpe]

Reduce the requiered shards to resetting the talents down to 5 please. If I'am right, the aggroskills of the tanks dont work in multiplayer. I dont know how much we can "change" as a lastminute betatester but... I think fast resetting is quite essential for multiplayer balance.

[DeGraffenried]

I am sure if this is last minute beta testing, they will make patches for the game, and I am sure there will be a worldshift 2, this game has alot of potential... its just not there yet