PVP balance broken since 0.9.7

[ezsteel]

I have only extensively tested Humans so far after the patch, but I can say that the in-faction balance is broken.

First, you increase the unit cap from 24 to 30 which is equivalent to increasing Troopers and Rippers effectiveness with 25%, then you additionally increase Trooper's HP and Ripper's HP and damage, making them even stronger. And then, on top of that, decrease Hellfire's HP increasing the gap in effectiveness between low tier and high tier units. Also, you can now theoretically have 5 Hellfires and 7 Assault bots as compared to 6 and 8 before the patch. Either increase low tier units possible count OR decrease high tier units count. NOT both. All in all, currently the Hellfire is an useless piece of junk, with the assault bot closely behind it.

Also, why decrease small bases HP and increase upgraded bases HP? Small bases were never the problem and upgraded bases were always the problem. With the increase of the unit cap it already becomes easier to take down small expansions because you can afford more tier 1 units = more damage. Why decrease the HP on top of that?

So, to recap, currently masses of rippers and/or troopers are severely overpowered.
I can only guess the other factions have a similar problem although maybe not so immediately apparent.
In fact, increasing the cap and playing around with the units' cost have rendered obsolete all the feedback and fine-tunings since close beta till now because the new cap introduces a different playing environment.


Suggestions for fixing this:
A) return to the original unit cap, proceed fine-tuning from there. The game had just started to take shape and this change made it a mess. Or:
B) nerf troopers and rippers HP, make the hellfire take 5 unit supply points, maybe make assault bot to cost 3 points. Tune the other factions accordingly. Nerf upgraded bases a bit.

[Jeans]

Also, why decrease small bases HP and increase upgraded bases HP? Small bases were never the problem and upgraded bases were always the problem.

I totaly agree with this point

[Frujin]

In fact, increasing the cap and playing around with the units' cost have rendered obsolete all the feedback and fine-tunings since close beta till now because the new cap introduces a different playing environment.

Hello ezsteel.

Let me explain the reasons behind this change. As you know, although not perfect, recently the game was getting closer to a stable balance stage. Which makes us feel good and also secure that we can have a "safe point" in the balance process.

However, we would like to explore some different arangements and different approach. Yes, it changes the in-faction balance but also we feel it will definitely introduce new tactics and will enachance the strategic element of the game play.

May be we overdid it with the troopers/ripper buff, but we will see. For sure there is retune comming with next patch.

Hellfires and A-Bots are able to do much more in terms of tactical usage than currently shown by the players. I personally think this is due to the "easyness" of usage with constructors + drones and firesweeps.

About the structures, there were too small benefit of upgrading the structures currently (i.e. not enough tactival value). And there is a potential upcoming "hit points" scaling for 1v1, 2v2 and 3v3 games.

But, let us see. :)

[ezsteel]

Thanks for the quick reply, Frujin. As always it is a pleasure to discuss directly with you guys and have a go at the whys and hows.

I can see your point but I disagree to some extent. Upgraded bases were already a must have because of the increased resource income and much much higher defense. So I don't really like this change much, can't really see how making the level 1 bases weaker adds to the tactics - they were going down fast, now they will go down even faster forcing people to upgrade as soon as possible.

Hellfires die so fast now that comparing them to the respective amount of troopers (6 troopers vs 1 hellfire) is not even funny. ;-)
Assault bots have some good uses and in theory they should be especially good vs masses but their relatively high supply points cost (4 at the moment) will not be promoting them to usefullness anytime soon. Maybe you should boost them a little bit to justify the 4 points cost.

Obviously what I fear is the game degenerating to rushes and tier 1 hordes after that change. The damage from low level units have significantly increased now (+25% in mid-game due to the new cap) in a game that already had a lot of damage. This spells future problems.

And, please, don't scale HP according to game sizes.

[DanteOne]

omg... the bases... wtf? they not going down

i hope the human base wasnt buffed the way the cult was otherwise GG. no way to take out a base with towers

[Frujin]

And, please, don't scale HP according to game sizes.
Come on :)

Well, one of the changes with the next push will be -1 damage for Troopers, - 10 ho for troopers and rippers, -1 armor for troopers, -1 unit cost for HF (back to max of 6), +10 (or 15) hp for tritech's.

By the way, we buffed the main structure, not the damage or the HP of the turrets.

Please, help us to explore this balance :)

What is your in-game name btw?

[DanteOne]

troopers are way too hard they need to be nerfed.

and do something bout dominators. they are useless waste of money. they are close-combat with 45-15dmg and got low hp. dimension chain says its for 4 seconds but it feels like its 2. power fuse is nearly useless cause u need to get in close range and then they get killed easily. end of all: radius of dimension chain is a joke...

[Scrutized]

OMG OMG OMG i mean human was overpowerd before this patch was released but NOWWW! !!! omg omg what crap making an allready unbalanced race even stronger???

[Tobias]

Upgraded bases were already a must have because of the increased resource income and much much higher defense. So I don't really like this change much, can't really see how making the level 1 bases weaker adds to the tactics - they were going down fast, now they will go down even faster forcing people to upgrade as soon as possible.


I have to disagree with this point and your points on the new max unit count.

These changes have definitely improved the overall pace of the game. I'm noticing that many of my games are now being decided before either player upgrades more than one or two bases.

Prior to the patch it was difficult having to take down level 1 bases because there was usually enough time for the player being attacked to upgrade and refresh the bases's HP. This also provided enough time for that player to return and defend- even if he was halfway across the map. There was basically no big risk in leaving your base unguarded.

Weaker level 1 bases rewards aggressive play and makes turtling less of an option. This is a good thing.