Tribes OP?

[DanteOne]

Freeze can be put up to 10secs + has a huge radius compared to other abilities, fear-duration of growling horror is way too long, shamans bonus too high?

[Arnica]

I found freeze to be too short compared to the wc3 freeze.... IMO its decent...

[DanteOne]

10 seconds is decent? not really more over holy aura is too powerful seen one with 58 heal all 5 seconds

dont compare this to wc3 its a way different game. this is a more fast placed game wiht less hp and more damage in average to wc3

[TechMonk]

I agree 10 seconds is too much, considering this game doesnt have such a big pop cap something like that makes a huge diference in the course of the game.

[Rynn]

Go look into the cult skills... they only get a root which lasts meager four seconds. So yes, this one is definately a *tad* off. :eek:

[CriTTeR]

10 seconds is decent? not really more over holy aura is too powerful seen one with 58 heal all 5 seconds

dont compare this to wc3 its a way different game. this is a more fast placed game wiht less hp and more damage in average to wc3

Sure this is different to wc3, but this is a strategy game nonetheless and they need certain things to be considered a good game. This game is definitely not more fast paced than wc3 because in wc3, the maps are smaller ( the maps in this game are why too big )

when i say too big, i mean that in warcraft theres different maps for the amount of players that will play the game. for 1v1 you have smaller maps, for 2v2 you have bigger maps, for 3v3 you have bigger maps still. this allows you to get to the enemys base within a cerain time, and not have you walking accross the map for half an hour to get to them. also considering that warcraft has teleports, you can defend your bases more effectively. you have the choice wether you want to fight the enemys' base, or save yours. its your choice. this allows a lot more back and forth. in this game you can fight the enemy but you will both lose your entire army because once you start to fight its really hard to retain your units so you constantly have to rebuild. this makes for a much slower game play compared to warcraft. in warcraft if i see things not going my way, i teleport out before things go really bad.

just because your units die faster and you do more damage doesnt make this game faster. in fact it does just the opposite, because you have to constantly rebuilt.

in general i can finish a warcraft game in 5-10 minutes. this game takes longer due to the long travel times, lack of teleport, lack of scout units/buildings, air transports, etc.

[DanteOne]

i ahve average game time of 7 mins...

[Scrutized]

owned !

[DanteOne]

6:50 now

[Eleven]

I generally play as Tribes since the beginning of the betas, not because they are overpowered but because their game style suits me. Actually I think they are the most successful of the three factions gamplaywise. They have it all

Healing abilities - Renew, One unit Uberheal, Global Action, Auras
Great AoE spells - Incinerate, Freeze, Frost Wave
Great cunning hero and damagedealer - The Guardian
Tank units with personal heal + Fear


The things in bold I think might use some kind of nerfing, but as a whole I think the problem is that the Tribes have wide variety of totally different strategies that the other two factions just don't have ingame. My suggestions on the bolded spells are as follows


Healing abilities - One unit Uberheal(to be able to cast it only on living units and not on the underground units) Auras (reduce the healing rate)
Great AoE spells - Incinerate,(decrease the Area of Effect) Freeze,(make it a chance spell - 40% to freeze a unit and the others to be slowed down drasticly)
Tank units with personal heal + Fear (leave the fear out, make it just a healing spell)


On the subject if WS is fast paced or not - well it is actually. But parallel with Warcraft is totally inappropriate since WC3 has tech trees and has a very different concept. The thing that annoys me still in WS is that usually a game of 1v1 has 2-3 fights utmost after which the game is clear and it is just a matter of time the one to get beaten and therefore the average game length is about 7-8 minutes. But actually about 4-5 minutes of that game the player spends in discovering the map and searching for his opponent/resources. Well we already learned to split our armies into a couple of groups in order to be more efficient in the map exploration, but never the less it is still annoying. I would love to see a constant map pool for the Deathmach games or at least to have the minimap undiscovered as we start the game.

[xksimon]

To Eleven:

your suggestions are not work at all. Here comes a reason

Healing abilities - One unit Uberheal(to be able to cast it only on living units and not on the underground units) Auras (reduce the healing rate)
>>The powerful of Tribes is the HP Recovery and healing, which is amazing. However, if the renew unable to heal underworld units, people can only choose either Shaman or Stone Ghost. Please, do not forget that, only shaman can be buffedby specialzation, no Stone Ghost. Stone Ghost was designed as a Power Provider.
(P.S. If i don't get wrong, renew cannot be heal underworld units already, isn't it?)

Incinerate,(decrease the Area of Effect)
>>Well, so what does the Sorcerer for then? Tribes sorcerer was designed as a cheap creeps killer. Like killing Trisats, Warrior, Trooper.

In fact, this game NEVER request players to lure the same type of units. Anyway, there are too many players who only lure Troopers in DM mode. Or Trisats and Warrior.


Freeze,(make it a chance spell - 40% to freeze a unit and the others to be slowed down drasticly)
>>OK, if you do it. You are ruining Tribes at all.


Tank units with personal heal + Fear (leave the fear out, make it just a healing spell)
>>Well, so Stone Giant is useless. Since no one will attack this little ass anymore
(P.S. Who will order his army to a tank, which healling over time itself but won't hurt your units? It is not a tank, it is just a claim)

Post edited by Mishony: Please mind your language and restrain from personal attacks!

[xksimon]

DanteOne was used Cult to beat my powerful Tribes before. It proved that, Not Tribes OP, just you guys are too weak.

[ezsteel]

Dude, you need to chill, seriously. Also, growing up helps on occasions, unlike calling names.

[ezsteel]

On the topic:

Tribes strong points: Crowd control, Officers, Howling Horrors, very strong upgraded bases.
Tribes weak points: Limited unit choice. Brutes for example are not nearly as useful as horrors when it comes to tanking. And Shades are not really worth it.

So, how to balance?

Do not increase Freeze duration with items.
Maybe decrease Howl's Fear with 1 more second.
Nerf the high priest's healing aura.
Decrease Sorcerer's hp a little.
Nerf the Temple's aura.
Nerf Fire Lash.
Buff Shades.
Buff brutes(?)

[elvain]

DanteOne was used Cult to beat my powerful Tribes before. It proved that, Not Tribes OP, just you guys are too weak.

so you can swith?
DanteOne will play as Tribes and you should beat him with Cult, when it's just question of players' quality, so where's the problem?

PS: tell me the result then ;)

[DanteOne]

yep eleven i think u got it. Tribes got all advantages (aoe, heal, tanks...) without the disadvantages. cult got aoe and damage but no heal and tank. humans got good healing and tanks but no real aoe and dmg...

brutes are weak? have u seen their armor? its awesome. even if i fire with 2arbiters, 2 doms and master on a brute it takes at least five or more seconds to take down one single brute... if no heal is there and i would prefer brutes over horrors if horrors wouldnt have fear...

[CriTTeR]

owned !


not really. if the game consists of him going for one expansion, exploring for a while and then one or two fights to win the game, thats not exactly exciting. especially if he is doing this every game, and his average is going down. in other games its always up to the player skill that decides how long a game will be. sometimes i just out micro other players or just choose to do something that the other player doesnt expect and the game ends fast. sometimes the game is so evenly matched by player skill and constant countering that the game can last upward to 30 minutes because there is constant back and forth. 30 minutes might sound long if you end up turtling at your base, but a short game doesnt define a fast game. and a long lasting game doesnt define a game that is slow. your actions per minute could be 99999999 and the game could still last an hour or just 30 seconds, it all depends what you make of it.
the speed of the game should be based on how fast you can counter a strategy, or how fast you can attack the enemys base after he attacked yours. how fast you can pull off hit and runs ( and maybe doing things like expanding with a few units while distracting the enemy with another army. ) just cuz your units die fast doesnt make it fast, it makes it boring cuz you have to rebuild more often, and game ends before its really gotten good.

EDIT: when i say fast countering by the way, i dont mean to make units build any faster neccesseraly. good players will often distract their enemies with whatever they got while they build up their army. at the same time if they scout properly ( which should be done every game, and available to all races/players, then they should be able to adjust their army to counter what the enemy has. its this type of change, and back and forth that i define as fast. massing units and killing the enemy in a few seconds can be fun, sure, but it does last long and before long you will be moving onto another game.

the reason i keep mentioning warcraft mostly is because there is a good reason why its community is so large. its not because its the only rts out there, and its not because "its blizzard", its because it does a lot of things right, and theres so much variety in gameplay that it keeps people comming back for more. there were times when the balance was way off, and the community was drifting off and shrinking, but with some huge balance changes made, the community became strong again. its important to make the game exiting with variety. things like tournaments and having a ladder helps a ton as well. as well as replays to watch what the top ladder players do, and learn from them. or even make new strategies against what the top players do, so you can counter and beat all the people that will try to copy those strategies :D

also, to the person that says that freeze in warcraft lasts longer than 10 seconds probably hasnt played warcraft since beta, 20 years ago. freeze only lasts a few seconds and units can still move but at a slowed down pace. even skills like stun wards only last a few seconds( and are even less effective against stronger units ). the freeze in this game stops everything, allowing your army to completely murder your enemys force within seconds and without any sense of effort.

[Rynn]

the freeze in this game stops everything, allowing your army to completely murder your enemys force within seconds and without any sense of effort.

This is one of the things that angers me when playing against tribes. My friend tosses a freeze at me, lets five brutes chop my frozen units to pieces, and if they survived, a twister is smacked ontop, the brutes healed, and i wasn't even able to fire of a fear/dimension chain or any crowd control for that matter. In the end, my cult vs tribes games end by me being a sitting duck, despite multiple captured towers and a previously full force army.

Even if i managed to cast nova-feed-fear-vortex, too many opposing units survive, and finish me off.

I'm no expert player, but I fail to see a way to beat the tribes. Compared to them, humans are alot easier to beat... if not more evenly matched. :(

[CriTTeR]

thats why freeze should merely slow your units down, or work for less than half the time.

[remote]

thats why freeze should merely slow your units down, or work for less than half the time.
Or we could simply remove it ....

Freeze is very powerfull but to make it work only for 4-5 seconds would ruin it.
Dimension chains lasts around 4 seconds, it also increases the damage taken by affected units and Cult can do much more dps than Tribes. Furthermore, when units are released from dimension chains there's fear so cult is able to take units even longer out of combat than Tribes.
So why should freeze only work as long as dimension chain if this ability is much more dangerous?

Remove the possibility to increase freeze duration by items and everything would be fine.

[CriTTeR]

Or we could simply remove it ....

Freeze is very powerfull but to make it work only for 4-5 seconds would ruin it.
Dimension chains lasts around 4 seconds, it also increases the damage taken by affected units and Cult can do much more dps than Tribes. Furthermore, when units are released from dimension chains there's fear so cult is able to take units even longer out of combat than Tribes.
So why should freeze only work as long as dimension chain if this ability is much more dangerous?

Remove the possibility to increase freeze duration by items and everything would be fine.

because it disables the use of those units completely. if you cant use your army.... it doesn't matter which types of buffs i have on with what race if i cant use my units at all, or how long they last.

if i have a buff to do more dmg, but you use freeze on the same units i have buffs on and you slow my attack rate by like 50% and my movement rate, so i cant micro my units out, then i do 2x less hits than i would normally right? that would easily balance things out.

i dont mind if the units are slowed down for 8 seconds, or 20, but if they are frozen for 8 seconds and i cant do anything with them at all, then thats a complete unfair advantage as it makes the fight like 10 units vs 20. guess which side will win if they focus fire on the few units that are on the battle field? if they run with the remaining units then they lose 1/2 their army anyway cuz once they get unfrozen they will be completely outnumbered.
also considering that tribes has the most powerful tanks out there that can be healed for a crapload, it really makes them unstoppable. any hits they take, they absorb, and heal. while making sure that they disable 1/2 your army so you cant even do much damage to those mountain giants.

warcraft has a similar mountain giant unit, and you can heal it using several methods. one is using a healing ward for some fast regeneration its an area of effect skill, and it is destroyable. another is by casting rejuvenation with your druids, which also regenerates your health quickly, but only one unit at a time. you can heal instantly with a paladin, but not to full health ( it levels up with the hero ( it starts out pretty low), etc. most of these regeneration skills make it harder to kill the mountain giants, but not impossible. with some good micro a player will remove the mountain giant from the battle so he can regenerate, but he is still voulnerable when hes got little health.

healing for full and disabling 1/2 an army is a bit much.

[Tomas]

I think there are too many powers in general that take away control from your units. I've played several matches where the only deciding factor is who sets off the first power.

[CriTTeR]

I think there are too many powers in general that take away control from your units. I've played several matches where the only deciding factor is who sets off the first power.

thats why the actual battles need to be longer. smaller damage or less effective skills. ( by less effective i mean less destructive ). and more hp on your units. skills can stay, disruptive or not, but they need to either be balanced differently.

freeze shouldnt stop units entirely. if it does, make its cooldown a LOT longer, so its only used once during a regular fight, and not 3 times. make it last shorter too, so you can atleast balance the fight somewhat, and make it less effective on heroes so you can cast your ultimates as well.
or, change the way it works so it slows units down for longer duration and attack power, but atleast this gives us the ability to micro their positions and cast the units skills.

summoning armies for humans needs to summon less, or make them less powerful, make them controllable so atleast they are as effective as the players skill is, and make their spawn insertion point user definable. ( sort of like placing the photon blast ) and obviously, cooldown large as well, cuz it is something you can use as a tipping point in a match.

healing to be turned into a rejuvenation type skill where its a regeneration skill over time, and make it heal units quickly. and maybe even a skill that heals instantly but it has to be researched at the base to be made more effective. maybe even a heal ward similar to the photon blast area of effect, but the downside is that it could be destroyed if the user manually points his units onto it ( the units wouldnt destroy it automatically ).

there are so many options that can be taken.

and i agree that a lot of matches really depend on who uses their skill first.

[xksimon]

Okay, so I am here to tell you guys why Tribes are not really overpowered by one by one

Units:

Warrior - Only powerful when shooting at the maximun range and costed 3 points into specializations. Moreover, warrior HP is LOW and they are NON-Armor.

The way to beat: Come on, just walk near to it......

Brute - With specializations, Brute is nearly unbeatable - in physical attack. YES, you got it, it is just physical. Brute is a good tank, but their damage output is JUST LOW. Thus, what Brute mainly job is that make your officers and master unable to action.

The way to beat (For Human):
1.Hellfires with good timing Fire Sweeps, it will own everything.
2.A Unbeatable healing is what Human STRONG at. 2-3 Surgeons or Contrustors spam their AOE healing would give you the time to take care the brutes.

The way to beat (For Cults):
1.Massing a lot of units to assault the High Priest and Officers will be a good idea.
2.Same, with Master and Officers Healing, and also 1 more things - Disables which is Cults strong at. You should Fear those Brute rather than the Priest, as your dominator should be the one who take care of Priest.

Ancient Shade - Well, I think it is the well balanced-unit. Nothing to say.

Howling Horoor - With tons of armor and quite armor. It seem hard to beat in a short time.

The way to beat (For ALL, and it is the way):
1.NEVER head-on all units at a small place, you should spread your units away from each other.
2.When Howling Horrow is coming, Order your troops to attack it first. Once you feel that you can take out the Howling Horrow with 1-2 disables. Just use it! Cults shouldn't be a problem at all as they got many disables. For human they can judge to drain the Howling Horrow power, which make it can't active the fear.

Okay, so I am here to tell you guys why Tribes are not really overpowered by one by one

Units:

Warrior - Only powerful when shooting at the maximun range and costed 3 points into specializations. Moreover, warrior HP is LOW and they are NON-Armor.

The way to beat: Come on, just walk near to it......

Brute - With specializations, Brute is nearly unbeatable - in physical attack. YES, you got it, it is just physical. Brute is a good tank, but their damage output is JUST LOW. Thus, what Brute mainly job is that make your officers and master unable to action.

The way to beat (For Human):
1.Hellfires with good timing Fire Sweeps, it will own everything.
2.A Unbeatable healing is what Human STRONG at. 2-3 Surgeons or Contrustors spam their AOE healing would give you the time to take care the brutes.

The way to beat (For Cults):
1.Massing a lot of units to assault the High Priest and Officers will be a good idea.
2.Same, with Master and Officers Healing, and also 1 more things - Disables which is Cults strong at. You should Fear those Brute rather than the Priest, as your dominator should be the one who take care of Priest.

Ancient Shade - Well, I think it is the well balanced-unit. Nothing to say.

Howling Horoor - With tons of armor and quite armor. It seem hard to beat in a short time.

The way to beat (For ALL, and it is the way):
1.NEVER head-on all units at a small place, you should spread your units away from each other.
2.When Howling Horrow is coming, Order your troops to attack it first. Once you feel that you can take out the Howling Horrow with 1-2 disables. Just use it! Cults shouldn't be a problem at all as they got many disables. For human they can judge to drain the Howling Horrow power, which make it can't active the fear.

Officers:

Guardian - Although it got high damage and powerful skill, but low HP and armor.

The way to beat(For Human):
1.Use confuse to draw the guardian attack, then ask your commander coming around your troop. It is a stupid action if you stand still and fight.
2.Tank and kill
3.Again... Hellfires own....
4.Ripper is the counter-unit for ALL Tribes officers and Priest.

The way to beat(For Cults):
1.Disable....

Shaman - The one who can make your disable useless, and healing itself and nearby units with a chances.

The way to beat(For Human):
1.Just foucs fire on it. As human healing ability of AOE is more powerful than Tribes.

The way to beat(For Cults):
1.Disable and kill
2.Massing units and order to kill

Sorcerer - High damage, with slow and pretty good HP. One thing which need to mention is that, about the armor. Only using purple items will make the Sorcerer powerful. Therefore, if you really want to nerf. Nerf the Purple item then.

Stone Ghost - LOL, it is easy

High Priest - Althoug it got passive AOE healing and FULL Healing. However, Priest are weak at HP and Armor. You should able to kill a priest during the disable time.

Freeze - Again, never just order all of your units stand nearby each other. Please do more marcoing. People always lose because of Freeze. However, they never knew, they lose because themselves. Try to disable the priest first before he did it

[Tomas]

Warrior - Only powerful when shooting at the maximun range and costed 3 points into specializations. Moreover, warrior HP is LOW and they are NON-Armor.

The way to beat: Come on, just walk near to it......

Most stuff is dead if you try to close in to melee with warrior spam. Give or take because of freeze.

My beef with these abilities is that any strategy goes right out the window when a key unit is frozen - and obviously players will freeze key units. Or fear. Or provoke. Or chain.

Since units in WS die so fast, it's a given that you are able to kill any target within a 5 second duration. Since most of these lockdown-abilities last for longer than that, it's only a matter of who manages to cast it first.

[xksimon]

Most stuff is dead if you try to close in to melee with warrior spam. Give or take because of freeze.

My beef with these abilities is that any strategy goes right out the window when a key unit is frozen - and obviously players will freeze key units. Or fear. Or provoke. Or chain.

Since units in WS die so fast, it's a given that you are able to kill any target within a 5 second duration. Since most of these lockdown-abilities last for longer than that, it's only a matter of who manages to cast it first.

then it is your problem. When I dealing with Tribes player. Normally, i will sperate my army into 4 groups. And attack the enemy from 4 direction.

Yes, Freeze is powerful, when you just head-on all of your units at the same time.

Do not forget it is a RTS game, not a Mouse&Click game.
Tactics also is the key point to win.

Beside, what I just said is proved by myself and working on most Tribes players. Therefore, Tribes is not overpowered

[Tomas]

I'm not arguing that tribes is overpowered. I'm saying there are too many powers in the game in general that take away control of your forces, and it's more frustrating to be hit with them than it is satisfying to use them. Freeze is just a great example since it's one of the more powerful ones.
Even if it was just for a single target, I would feel it's too much of a factor in defining the outcome of a skirmish.

[Tobias]

It's hard for any of us to be an authority on what is and what isn't overpowered since the game is constantly changing with patches and there are definitely many strategies and tactics that haven't been fully explored yet. However, it is easy to tell when some players lose due to tactical errors and not because certain skills are imbalanced.

Another important note is that this game will never be truly balanced unless every player has immediate access to every artifact. Players who spend more time in game will always have an item advantage over newer players. This doesn't mean players who spend more time will automatically win, but it is still a big factor in balance.

xksimon mentioned some good strategies to use against Tribes, and I'd like to reinforce some of those points.

Freeze, like any aoe, is easily countered if you don't move your army in one big group. If you're moving all of your officers in close proximity to each other, then you're just asking to be punished by any decent player of any race.

Cult's Dimension Chain is a 4 second disable which can be boosted to 6 seconds (possibly 7?) with artifacts. Since it is an officer skill, Cult players can potentially have four copies of Dimension Chain. Horrify and Fear Shock are other easy ways to disrupt Tribe's damage dealers if you get frozen. Fear Shock has a lower fear duration than the Howling Horror's fear, but FS is a ranged aoe skill. A Howling Horror has to walk up to your units in order to use his fear. Think about that for a moment.

Human's also have answers to Freeze and Howling Horrors. Confuse, which has a 9 second default duration, can be use preemptively to disable a high priest's skills. If you're able to get confuse off first, this gives you a chance to move in rippers to stun lock Tribe officers or to move in Hellfires for their aoe. If your units get frozen, then use what is available accordingly. As long as you keep each key part of your army (healers, damage dealers, and disablers) at a safe distance from one another you have a good chance of surviving Freeze.

[DanteOne]

Okay, so I am here to tell you guys why Tribes are not really overpowered by one by one

Units:

Warrior - Only powerful when shooting at the maximun range and costed 3 points into specializations. Moreover, warrior HP is LOW and they are NON-Armor.

The way to beat: Come on, just walk near to it......

Brute - With specializations, Brute is nearly unbeatable - in physical attack. YES, you got it, it is just physical. Brute is a good tank, but their damage output is JUST LOW. Thus, what Brute mainly job is that make your officers and master unable to action.

The way to beat (For Human):
1.Hellfires with good timing Fire Sweeps, it will own everything.
2.A Unbeatable healing is what Human STRONG at. 2-3 Surgeons or Contrustors spam their AOE healing would give you the time to take care the brutes.

The way to beat (For Cults):
1.Massing a lot of units to assault the High Priest and Officers will be a good idea.
2.Same, with Master and Officers Healing, and also 1 more things - Disables which is Cults strong at. You should Fear those Brute rather than the Priest, as your dominator should be the one who take care of Priest.

Ancient Shade - Well, I think it is the well balanced-unit. Nothing to say.

Howling Horoor - With tons of armor and quite armor. It seem hard to beat in a short time.

The way to beat (For ALL, and it is the way):
1.NEVER head-on all units at a small place, you should spread your units away from each other.
2.When Howling Horrow is coming, Order your troops to attack it first. Once you feel that you can take out the Howling Horrow with 1-2 disables. Just use it! Cults shouldn't be a problem at all as they got many disables. For human they can judge to drain the Howling Horrow power, which make it can't active the fear.

Officers:

Guardian - Although it got high damage and powerful skill, but low HP and armor.

The way to beat(For Human):
1.Use confuse to draw the guardian attack, then ask your commander coming around your troop. It is a stupid action if you stand still and fight.
2.Tank and kill
3.Again... Hellfires own....
4.Ripper is the counter-unit for ALL Tribes officers and Priest.

The way to beat(For Cults):
1.Disable....

Shaman - The one who can make your disable useless, and healing itself and nearby units with a chances.

The way to beat(For Human):
1.Just foucs fire on it. As human healing ability of AOE is more powerful than Tribes.

The way to beat(For Cults):
1.Disable and kill
2.Massing units and order to kill

Sorcerer - High damage, with slow and pretty good HP. One thing which need to mention is that, about the armor. Only using purple items will make the Sorcerer powerful. Therefore, if you really want to nerf. Nerf the Purple item then.

Stone Ghost - LOL, it is easy

High Priest - Althoug it got passive AOE healing and FULL Healing. However, Priest are weak at HP and Armor. You should able to kill a priest during the disable time.

Freeze - Again, never just order all of your units stand nearby each other. Please do more marcoing. People always lose because of Freeze. However, they never knew, they lose because themselves. Try to disable the priest first before he did it

Warriors: no armor and no need for... get close to them? how? freeze/howl of horrors keeps you on distance

Brute: as u noticed, they disable officers without taking dmg. well u got warriors for dmg that noone can reach cause all units are disabled

i dont know what humans does but for cult:
1. if all units assault priest they get frozen/howled... if u seperate units before assaulting half frozen/half dead...
2. if cult has something that disables, both races would be even: fear/chain VS howl/freeze/disable/fire... 2vs4 AOE? well and dominator got 15dmg. priest heals for 58hp each 5 seconds. 5x15=75, 75-58=17 hey hey... 17 dmg in 5 seconds... AND if u stun the priest it STILL HEALS !!!

to beat horrors?? 1. never head on all units one place... read number 1 for "how to beat with cults". spread and get killed by warriors... FINE TACTIC ! u should try cult vs tribe AS CULT

something to humans: the may have the better healing, but not the better armor/health-base. tribes take a lot less dmg than humans

[Tobias]

Warriors: no armor and no need for... get close to them? how? freeze/howl of horrors keeps you on distance

How close are you trying to get? Other than Trisats, most of the Cult units are ranged. Shifters can just summon units right next to warriors. Infest can also own warriors and officers. A high priest can't freeze everything.

i dont know what humans does but for cult:
1. if all units assault priest they get frozen/howled... if u seperate units before assaulting half frozen/half dead...

What's stopping you from using chain, fear or horrify the instant part of your army is frozen? Don't tell me your Master, Arbiter, and/or Dominator were all standing next to each other and got frozen because that's just bad play.

2. if cult has something that disables, both races would be even: fear/chain VS howl/freeze/disable/fire... 2vs4 AOE?

Cult does have a disable. It's the Dominator's Stasis Shot. Sure its chance based, but so is the Brute's growl. Hatchlings also cause aggro similar to Brutes.

Fire (Incinerate) is not a disable. Its an aoe damage spell. Cult also has an aoe damage spell. Its called Nether Nova.

Try to make your points clearer next time.

well and dominator got 15dmg. priest heals for 58hp each 5 seconds. 5x15=75, 75-58=17 hey hey... 17 dmg in 5 seconds... AND if u stun the priest it STILL HEALS !!!

I don't see how these calculations are relevant. Why would a single dominator try to take out a high priest?

Also, not everyone puts 3 points into Healing Grace. If they did then they're giving something else up.

[DanteOne]

im speaking about the ability to disble an aoe effect. and tribes got all and no disadvantages. nether-nova is not as powerfull as fire

[Elchuchu]

tribes suck in deathmatch i fail to see how they're OP in anyway. All i see are humans with god mode heals and cult spamming hatchling right on top of me, and im talking about 20 hatchling with no ability to run away from em.

[Tobias]

nether-nova is not as powerfull as fire

Are you kidding me? Please do some research before making such claims. :bash:

Nether Nova: The Master creates a blast of nether energy that inflicts 125 damage to all enemies in a small area. (180 energy, 30 second recharge)

Incinerate: The Sorcerer heats and melts the ground in a selected area. All units standing on a the molten spot suffer 20 points of damage per tick. The effect lasts for 6 seconds. (120 energy, 30 second recharge)

125 instant damage vs 120 damage over 6 seconds.

Nether Nova + Dimension Chain = 156 instant aoe damage.

EDIT: Unlike Incinerate, Nether Nova does not do damage to friendly units.

[Eleven]

I suggest to make some kind of tournament in order to see what is going on balancewise, because this theorycraft doesn't help at all.

For the games I have played so far I think Tribes are a bit stronger and more versatile than the other two factions, but aren't unbeatable. I had serious problems playing against good cult players (aka DanteOne) in the closed beta and I would be thrilled to participate in a competitive event. One more thing is that I spotted that there are some good and serious players that are interested in the pro-gaming aspect of the game and this should be a good demonstration. What do you think guys? Shall we settle a day and time?

[DanteOne]

20points in a much larger area that can be frozen for 8 seconds... so instant = over time dmg

[remote]

Your enemy can simply walk out of Incinerate to avoid damage, if his units are not frozen. And don't forget: Incinerate also burns down your own units.

Nether Nova deals good instant damage and works well with Dimension Chain wich also can be boosted up to over 7 seconds.

Cast Dimension Chain on your enemy, place Nether Nova on them and let your Shifters summon some bugs. Now wait until Dimension Chain fades and go one with fear -> you have disabled this units for about 16 seconds!

If Freeze and Incinerate need to be nerfed Dimension Chain, Fear and Nether Nova do so too.

[Tobias]

20points in a much larger area that can be frozen for 8 seconds... so instant = over time dmg

:rolleyes:

No, instant damage will always have an advantage over damage over time. Just because it is possible for Incinerate to be used in combination with Freeze, doesn't make it better skill.

[DanteOne]

well u got this skill in addition... dimension chain can be disabled

[Tobias]

20points in a much larger area that can be frozen for 8 seconds... so instant = over time dmg

DanteOne, can you even back up your claims that Incinerate has a "much larger" area than Nether Nova? I was hesitant to say this earlier, so I decided to see for myself.

Here are my results:

1. From the first two screenshots we can see that the area-of-effect circle for Incinerate and Nether Nova are very similar in size, if not the same:

http://img72.imageshack.us/img72/6918/incinerate1ub1.jpg
http://img508.imageshack.us/img508/9249/nn1bv3.jpg

2. Just because the area-of-effect circle are similar in size doesn't necessarily mean that the actual spell is the same size, so I proceeded in the test.

http://img182.imageshack.us/img182/5518/incinerate2dw7.jpg
http://img171.imageshack.us/img171/1328/nn2pb8.jpg
http://img171.imageshack.us/img171/3633/nn3yr3.jpg

Thoughts:

From my tests, its clear that there isn't a huge difference between the AoE sizes of Incinerate and Nether Nova spells. I wouldn't be surprised if both of them actually had the same AoE size in the game code.

As open beta players and testers, we should actually test what we are posting. Making things up is a disservice to the game and the developers.

well u got this skill in addition... dimension chain can be disabled

Can you make up your mind? You seem to jump to a different issue every time I dismantle your arguments.