View Full Version : Human Stratagy Overpowered vs Cult
HereticArachnid
25 Mar 2008, 18:32
Note: It might just be the spec but i consider Specs apart of strategy so i figured they fell into the same category.
After various tests with basic units with only Specs (no grid items. we figured if we were gonna test it we might as well test to see if it was the items that were making op or the base.. it proved to be the base).
The strategy is spamming only troopers, 2 surgeons and 2 judges. Specing durability(2 stars), Crushing fire(3 stars), Motivation (1 star), Precision(2 stars), battle armor (1 star) and Power Surge (1 star)
We tried various strategies ranging from standoffs from ranged units to ambushes, to even teleport in and fear/horrify/d-chain manuvers. Using every type of unit combination possible to the cult, we failed each time to break it. On rare events the officers were killed off in the teleport from all the reg units causing the troopers to lose healing and such. But we tried to duplicate the effect but it was to no avail leaving it as "Pure luck" count.
The only way to fight this strategy is to wait untill you have 700 credits to fight it (which leaves you hanging around your base unable to combat or expand putting you at massive disadvantage) or camping your bases, assaulting his troops when they get slowed in the portal's negative field.
Some may say add more grid items. But that just means that the strategies from both sides become raised. Troopers have more damage, surgeons will heal more, and the judge proton nade and sweeping fire are buffed usually. Causing more damage to the cult player that he can't defend against.
Only 2-3 methods of defeating this strategy have been found. Portal camping, Teleport + fear+dchain+Infest + Target officers and pure luck.
If you have any doubts try playing in Practice. Mass armies and only use the following human strategy. If you find anything different please make posts.
-Heretic.
Heavenfall
25 Mar 2008, 18:37
They just got nerfed today.
HereticArachnid
26 Mar 2008, 02:29
They just got nerfed today.
sorry but 1 damage point from troopers isn't gonna stop the cult from being destroyed by this strategy. It'll just prolong it by 2 seconds at most.
The biggest difficulty in countering this strategy with the cult is that the troopers are too cheap to produce at the start of the game letting you march your 20+ troopers around and drop shock troopers anywhere relatively early in the game. The rate of fire is just too high compared to the cults starting units.
I think adjusting the shock troopers would help immensely as well as increasing the damage of Trisats to be comparable by number or by making hatchlings harder to hit. Another good change would be to improve the arbiters confuse rate or extend the time the troopers are confused.
The humans strategy really is nearly unbeatable in pvp and serves as a complete slap in the face to the cult. Adjusting damage of the troopers is not taking into account how the strategy is actually used because its numbers and rate of fire that brings down the cult player. Cult could really use more disruption or a different way to play beyond relying on healing and abilities that are too quickly disrupted by proton grenades delivered by overpowered judges. . . ie that item that makes proton grenades into napalm vs psi users.
Love this game but for it to be successful, powerful strategies like this are important. A tip from the CCG realm would be to develop a counter for it for each race cause adaptability should be central to each race in pvp, not a rush to cap all the xenolite to deny them resources cause even that fails when players start with the 200 to rush with troopers.
Hoping for some light tweaking to the cult,
darpol
CriTTeR
26 Mar 2008, 08:05
The biggest difficulty in countering this strategy with the cult is that the troopers are too cheap to produce at the start of the game letting you march your 20+ troopers around and drop shock troopers anywhere relatively early in the game. The rate of fire is just too high compared to the cults starting units.
I think adjusting the shock troopers would help immensely as well as increasing the damage of Trisats to be comparable by number or by making hatchlings harder to hit. Another good change would be to improve the arbiters confuse rate or extend the time the troopers are confused.
The humans strategy really is nearly unbeatable in pvp and serves as a complete slap in the face to the cult. Adjusting damage of the troopers is not taking into account how the strategy is actually used because its numbers and rate of fire that brings down the cult player. Cult could really use more disruption or a different way to play beyond relying on healing and abilities that are too quickly disrupted by proton grenades delivered by overpowered judges. . . ie that item that makes proton grenades into napalm vs psi users.
Love this game but for it to be successful, powerful strategies like this are important. A tip from the CCG realm would be to develop a counter for it for each race cause adaptability should be central to each race in pvp, not a rush to cap all the xenolite to deny them resources cause even that fails when players start with the 200 to rush with troopers.
Hoping for some light tweaking to the cult,
darpol
as ive said before, to get rid of this overpowering strategy, some of the skills that make this overpowering should be researched to be as potent as it is now.
counters should be put in place as well. perhaps a skill that prevents the use of magic for a small area could help.
at this point in time, i have my doubts that this will happen. but man i hope that some research abilities get introduced to make the gameplay of pvp more fun.
stuff that could give the game more push pull and not so much push as it is now.
DanteOne
26 Mar 2008, 08:33
Try this:
Fear/Chain troopers and then cast Hatchlings with shifters on them. works good for me. if the human cant run somewhere the hatchlings kill them. dark vortex is a good support for your hatchlings. 3 shifters = 12 hatchling + rest of your troops. try it. works for me so far
Fear/Chain troopers and then cast Hatchlings with shifters on them. works good for me. if the human cant run somewhere the hatchlings kill them. dark vortex is a good support for your hatchlings. 3 shifters = 12 hatchling + rest of your troops. try it. works for me so far
Yes kills me most of the times, if Cult player uses this -_-
HereticArachnid
28 Mar 2008, 20:33
Current patch seems to have fixed this quite well.
Yes, those Cult buffs are sweet. By the way it was possible to beat this strategy with a little luck and 3 shifters as described above.
ArmaniMania
29 Mar 2008, 15:41
Or you could just use skill and win...
ezsteel
29 Mar 2008, 16:01
Seems to me that the Shifter buff was way too big.
Also, something needs to be done to Shifting Ray, really.
Seems to me that the Shifter buff was way too big.
Also, something needs to be done to Shifting Ray, really.
Actually, we forgot to adjust the cost of it accordingly :( Shifting ray we watch very closely as well.
ArmaniMania
29 Mar 2008, 16:55
Why does Hellfire takes 5 pop now ? You are forcing ppl to use trooper spec. :)
My bad , sorry, thought you could only take 2 in Locations now.
UPDATE :
After playing literally 100 DM games, i think the base defences need to be nerfed a lil bit, and hp points of all structures buffed. Even upgraded structures are easy pray to mid to high force, and it doesnt even give me time to resuply if i lost important battle defending one, since its easily destroyed. Human turrets are nightmare for tribes, while totally easy pray for human, cult base defence is laughable, add higher poison deduction. Just a suggestion anyway :)
Hm I find troopers insta-lose button vs cult unless your troopers and medics are uber buffed. Hatchling spam + the rest of the army and it is all over unless you have a beepload of luck and manage to get out before something stuns you ;/ Hm to be honest so far I don't find trooper spam that useful- tribes have pretty effective counter to it ,the cult has one too . That's my opinion though