View Full Version : indonesia?
What do you think about Indonesia?
AFAIK it is a sweet place! :) Never been there, but would love to!
I also never been there but i'm sure it's nice.
By the way, I just heard on the news that a earthquake hit the capital? 7.0 on the Richterscale! :eek:
This is a very strange question.
The strange thing is that me and my friends in school don't realize the earthquake!:?
At any rate we here are very good!In Jakarta the pollution is very high, Demoralization because of the Western Influence here:crushed: :crushed: !
WHY???
sad about the earthquake..
btw, how far from Jakarta you live, in which direction?
btw, what do you mean by demoralization or polution? and have you been to Jakarta? how many times to say this condamnation?
You're just 12 years old, right? but I think even 12 years old guy can easily see what is better:
is it better to blindly accept the first teaching you have ever heard and take it literally in every aspect
or learn more teachings and take the best from each (in perspective of your own life and tradition you grown in)
when you go to buy shoes, do you buy first you see or look around and take those that fit your feet the best? What is more important to you, your shoes or your life? Why so many people care much better which shoes will they buy, but don't care which path they will follow in their life and take the first they were given?
Well,I live in Tebet.And here it's not THAT much car here.BTW Tebet is in South Jakarta.Near Central and East Jakarta.So I don't know why I am not feeling the Earthquake!
And the Earthquake center in Indramayu right? Maybe Allah punish them for making their own child(!:bash: :crushed: ) prostitutes (Before you correct me again Elvain, the national Children Guard(is it spell like that?!) report to the country that many Parents in Indramayu sell their own children (and MAKE THEM become PROSTITUTSE!
And BTW My father's parent(both of them) are from Batusangkar Village, in Bukittinggi region(somewhere near that) and my dad born in Jakarta,grow up in Bukittinggi, In Senior Highschool moved to Bandung,And take ITB as first university(S1 in indonesia) and then S2 in America (forgot which school,I'll ask later!). My mother in the next post
many Parents in Indramayu sell their own children (and MAKE THEM become PROSTITUTSE!
many parents from other cities do the same, don't be afraid. And many parents from Indramayu don't do it, so why did Allah punnish them (if you really believe those who told you so, I wonder what they wil answer - what with the innocent victims? why are they punnished and why aren't punnished all - and only those - who sell their children as prostitutes?)
Why there are no earthquakes in Europe so full of sin (from your teachers - or whoever tells you those things- point of view) and why they are in Indonesia which follows the right teaching (more or less - some do it better, some worse, as everywhere)
could you give me explanation?
I have one but you should not believe it because it has no connection to God or no such powers: Indonesia is in tectonic active area while Europe isn't. What makes Indonesia, Pakistan and Japan more sinfull than Europe, Magghreb or USA that first 3 are continuously being punnished through earthquakes while the other 3 aren't?
Why was Aceh, the first Indonesian province to accept Islam the most damaged province after the "famous" 2004 Tsunami? Because there are separatists from Indonesian government? I bet something like that could be said by someone in Java - the God punished them for their separatism! but what if they are much better muslims than the best muslims from Jakarta or Tebet?
hehehehe.LOL you damage me very critical there Elvain.
The one who teaches me,Myself.Very anti-climax wasn't it?
hehehehe.LOL you damage me very critical there Elvain.
The one who teaches me,Myself.Very anti-climax wasn't it?
so tell me why? I wonder. I'm not as smart as you to teach myself ;) I need your help
I'm not trying to "damage you", I'm just asking questions you most probably know how to answer when you judge this way, so give me those answers please! I want to follow the right path, honestly
help me to find it, I can't here in sinfull Europe
What's your question?
I think in your last post all of that are answers?:confused: :rolleyes: ;) :p
What's your question?
I think in your last post all of that are answers?:confused: :rolleyes: ;) :p
just read my posts please, here you go
1) what with the innocent victims (in Indramayu)? why are they punnished and why aren't punnished all - and only those - who sell their children as prostitutes?
2) Why there are no earthquakes in Europe so full of sin (from your teachers - or whoever tells you those things- point of view) and why they are in Indonesia which follows the right teaching (more or less - some do it better, some worse, as everywhere)
could you give me explanation?
3) What makes Indonesia, Pakistan and Japan more sinfull than Europe, Maghreb or USA that first 3 are continuously being punnished through earthquakes while the other 3 aren't?
4) Why was Aceh, the first Indonesian province to accept Islam the most damaged province after the "famous" 2004 Tsunami?
5) Because there are separatists from Indonesian government?
6) but what if they (people and separatists from Aceh) are much better muslims than the best muslims from Jakarta or Tebet?
??????
I can't answer these intellegent question.
maybe you can ask Hamas (LOL)
Sorry for my stupidity.
:o :o
I resign my claim of the Indramayu.
But the Demoralezation still exist you know!
http://youtube.com/watch?v=hkxehrXU3tM
Link to Indonesia Raya Video.
Note: From 00:01 to 01:30 are the official Indonesia Raya from 1958.
The Rest are the original from W.R. Soepratman himself.
Sorry but the text are in old Indonesian Languange:o
The new one are different (henceforth call by me by EYD)
it exists everywhere, existed since the beggining and will exist till the end...
so sad you can't asnwer those questions. Next time I will meet someone from Hamas or some of it's "fans" I will ask them, be sure!
so sad you resigned so soon after someone asked just several questions :sad:
anyway what is the population of Jakarta? how many people live there? I think it is few millions, am I right?
I'd really like to know more, but many of my information are bit too old or influenced by media..
The one who lived there?
The one who got the KTP(what it is in America, I forget, Sorry.Just search the free dictionary for this "Kartu Tanda Penduduk" ) is 5 million (somewhere near that) The under 17 is between 1 million to 2. The unofficial is 2 million maximum.The people who works in Jakarta but live near it(outside) roughly 1 to 1.5 million
So count it and got 11 MILLION (MAX)!! that is the count from 2006.Now it will get many more (every day there is always people from village or Kabupaten in Jawa(sorry the English is Java but i like Jawa more.)migrate to Jakarta. 10.000 per month
Sorry I'll AFK for some minutes.I want to Shalat.It's Maghrib now in here.
I am back.Where is Elvain?
Anyway I have the Indonesia official site.
Just click there and then change the languange to English
http://www.indonesia.go.id/
The good one for English speaking person is http://WWW.Indonesia.go.id/en
I'm very patriotitic about this
many parents from other cities do the same, don't be afraid. And many parents from Indramayu don't do it, so why did Allah punnish them (if you really believe those who told you so, I wonder what they wil answer - what with the innocent victims? why are they punnished and why aren't punnished all - and only those - who sell their children as prostitutes?)
Why there are no earthquakes in Europe so full of sin (from your teachers - or whoever tells you those things- point of view) and why they are in Indonesia which follows the right teaching (more or less - some do it better, some worse, as everywhere)
could you give me explanation?
I have one but you should not believe it because it has no connection to God or no such powers: Indonesia is in tectonic active area while Europe isn't. What makes Indonesia, Pakistan and Japan more sinfull than Europe, Magghreb or USA that first 3 are continuously being punnished through earthquakes while the other 3 aren't?
Why was Aceh, the first Indonesian province to accept Islam the most damaged province after the "famous" 2004 Tsunami? Because there are separatists from Indonesian government? I bet something like that could be said by someone in Java - the God punished them for their separatism! but what if they are much better muslims than the best muslims from Jakarta or Tebet?
The US suffers from many earthquakes on the west coast. Although the US doesn't suffer earthquakes for so called punishments for being sinful as you pointed out.
Atmosphere
10 Aug 2007, 21:17
well just to let you know Europe is being "punished" aswell.
In Britain we have had a disastrous amount of rain causing floods and causing us to not have drinking water.
Also in places like Italy and Greece there have been big forest fires,
so dont worry we have our fair share of punishment
well just to let you know Europe is being "punished" aswell.
In Britain we have had a disastrous amount of rain causing floods and causing us to not have drinking water.
Also in places like Italy and Greece there have been big forest fires,
so dont worry we have our fair share of punishment
Well, by using these punishments then God is not really 'good'. I mean, why would God send a massive hurrican to hit the city and killed lots of innocent people? For punishment? Because they sinned? I wouldn't say the US is being punished in New Orleans, many people there go to church, pray and do whatever they normally do with their religious beliefs, they have been raised with these beliefs, told that was right, and follow that. How should they know about Islam? How should people in New Orleans know about Islam's teachings? Because they are not praying 5 times a day while facing Meccah that they have to be hit by a large storm and die? Sounds a little evil actually.
Atmosphere, I don't know how in England, but at least in central Europe and in all sub-mountainious regions local floods are regular natural thing, just sometimes they are stronger and sometimes weaker - depending on local climate.
Maybe England is punnished by God that there are too many muslims? (of course I'm joking!)
as to the fires: as far as I know (I red in media) many of the fires - at least in Italy - were started by people so I seriously doubt it is a punnishment
PS: why is US west coast being punnished by God when the East is much more liberal (anti-religious)
Atmosphere
10 Aug 2007, 21:59
Atmosphere, I don't know how in England, but at least in central Europe and in all sub-mountainious regions local floods are regular natural thing, just sometimes they are stronger and sometimes weaker - depending on local climate.
Maybe England is punnished by God that there are too many muslims? (of course I'm joking!)
as to the fires: as far as I know (I red in media) many of the fires - at least in Italy - were started by people so I seriously doubt it is a punnishment
PS: why is US west coast being punnished by God when the East is much more liberal (anti-religious)
well there was really bad floods thank you very much
http://www.boston.com/news/world/europe/articles/2007/07/23/thousands_evacuate_in_british_flooding/
theres your proof as for the muslim joke, there are 81+% english population in britain and about 1.8% muslim so i didnt take offence to that
Atmosphere, I don't know how in England, but at least in central Europe and in all sub-mountainious regions local floods are regular natural thing, just sometimes they are stronger and sometimes weaker - depending on local climate.
Maybe England is punnished by God that there are too many muslims? (of course I'm joking!)
as to the fires: as far as I know (I red in media) many of the fires - at least in Italy - were started by people so I seriously doubt it is a punnishment
PS: why is US west coast being punnished by God when the East is much more liberal (anti-religious)
Strange question at the end there, natural disasters, for me, are just natural ways winds, tectonic plates, storms and rain react when driven to the extreme which can be explained scientificaly, I think most people agree that those are natural disasters, not punishments from God that you believe in, (or you are being sarcastic) that's why the west coast is suffering disasters more than the east coast, because there are the tectonic plates etc. and in Louisana (South) where the hurricanes are. The American east coast is fortunate because very rarely to these kinds of natural disasters happen, there you go, explained scientificaly, if there were plagues, hurricanes and earthquakes in the east coast (Impossible) that cannot be explained scientifically then perhaps it is a punishment from God. Also, liberal is not anti-religious enough, all Democrats in the US for example, are religious.
of course that natural disasters have no connection to no supernatural powers (or at least that is what I believe), I was just asking questions someone who claimed that earthquake is punnishment by God, no offence.
From what I know about metheorology is that when winter is warm, there are floods in summer, but I think that these flood/draught extremes have connection to global climatic changes... We had apocalyptic floods here 5 years ago, but only the dumbest fanatics could think it was any kind of Gods punnishment. It had simple explanation: climatic changes and changes in our countryside in last 50 years when natural ways to catch rainfall in mountains were destroyed so water damaged everything under them..
earthquakes, however, have no direct connection to any of these events, do they? correct me if I'm wrong, please, I'm ready to learn more!
I was just shocked that I was given no "godess" explanation to processes. One local earthquake was said to be Gods punnishment to demoralized people. From my point of view it is crap, so I asked what explanation IWM has for other natural disasters and he showed me that he knows nothing. If he would know anything he would tell me that US west coast is also tectonic area as well as Japan, Pakistan or Indonesia, that US east coeast is target of dozens of hurricans every summer, but he knows nothing about it, he only knows that one earthquake in Indonesia was Gods punnishment on demoralized people.
If I could ever meet those who make this opinion settle in his young brain...
of course that natural disasters have no connection to no supernatural powers (or at least that is what I believe), I was just asking questions someone who claimed that earthquake is punnishment by God, no offence.
From what I know about metheorology is that when winter is warm, there are floods in summer, but I think that these flood/draught extremes have connection to global climatic changes... We had apocalyptic floods here 5 years ago, but only the dumbest fanatics could think it was any kind of Gods punnishment. It had simple explanation: climatic changes and changes in our countryside in last 50 years when natural ways to catch rainfall in mountains were destroyed so water damaged everything under them..
earthquakes, however, have no direct connection to any of these events, do they? correct me if I'm wrong, please, I'm ready to learn more!
I was just shocked that I was given no "godess" explanation to processes. One local earthquake was said to be Gods punnishment to demoralized people. From my point of view it is crap, so I asked what explanation IWM has for other natural disasters and he showed me that he knows nothing. If he would know anything he would tell me that US west coast is also tectonic area as well as Japan, Pakistan or Indonesia, that US east coeast is target of dozens of hurricans every summer, but he knows nothing about it, he only knows that one earthquake in Indonesia was Gods punnishment on demoralized people.
If I could ever meet those who make this opinion settle in his young brain...
It's quite simply, childhoos psychological printing, fanatic ideas could be placed in a child's head early in age that could carry on later until full psychological deveploment (no offense). Also, I have heared of those floods in Prague, and after visiting I have seen some of the marks on the buildings, although this was nothing supernatural. And no, earthquakes are caused when tectonic plates move, sliding against each other, so nothing about the weather changes earthquakes, but tsunamis, hurricanes, tornadoes etc. are affected by recent global climate change as you said, for example, warmer water = more energy for hurricanes to feed on which in turn means stronger hurricanes and more fierce winds. Although this has nothing to do with supernatural events of course, since it can all be explained, even religious people in the US believe these disasters to be natural, (at least most of them).
I don't think God would need any natural disasters to punish humans, as humans seem very efficient in punishing and destroying each other. I am, of course, talking about wars. Humans don't need any natural disasters, they ARE one.
Richard
11 Aug 2007, 03:09
Poor guy, everyone jumped on him lol. Well, that's what happens when one takes religion literally.
Xuca, are you implying that you aren't human?:rolleyes:
...Damn! My cover is blown. I guess I'll just have to kill you all and destroy the site! You won't stop me, it's too late! *jumps through the window*
passive voice:Upload Virus first to Xuca computer and Xuca himself
Well, Elvain, don't worry about "those who make this opinion settle in his young brain" TOO much! Look at me - I was raised as a Protestant (quite quite religious), but now I'm an Agnostic. I'd say it's not so much the problem in "what you're being taught", but in the "how you're being taught". If you're left to think by yourself, independently (i.e. "the how"), it can correct the falses (or goods) of what you've been previously taught (i.e. "the what"). Of course, if you live in a surrounding, which doesn't tolerate independent thinking, now that might be a serious problem, as it would limit your world-view and thus not allow you to make more correct deductions.
Anyway, about the "divine punishments" - well, we had great fires in the whole Balkans here and now we have some local big floods at least in Bulgaria. And considering we had great floods the last two years too (and great droughts too), I guess God should be so angry, that any time now a meteorite should hit us. But indeed, my mother (Christian) also made a remark that it appears that the village, which had recently been flooded and there are around 8 or more people dead (and still being found, taken away by the flood) is one of mainly Bulgarian Turks (Muslims). Of course, she and my father quickly renounced this conclusion as a mere coincidence - fires and floods affect all, both Christians and Muslims. So, considering that religions indeed seem to emphasize a lot on such kinds of "apocalyptic" "prophecying", does that mean that Christianity, being more liberal and open-minded (and even a rather Agnostic society to some degree), is weaker as a religion than Islam?
P.S. Wasn't this topic about Indonesia? :rolleyes:
Well, Elvain, don't worry about "those who make this opinion settle in his young brain" TOO much! Look at me - I was raised as a Protestant (quite quite religious), but now I'm an Agnostic. I'd say it's not so much the problem in "what you're being taught", but in the "how you're being taught". If you're left to think by yourself, independently (i.e. "the how"), it can correct the falses (or goods) of what you've been previously taught (i.e. "the what"). Of course, if you live in a surrounding, which doesn't tolerate independent thinking, now that might be a serious problem, as it would limit your world-view and thus not allow you to make more correct deductions.
As I said before, it's Childhood psychological imprinting, until the latter part of psycho-phisiological development stages of an adolescent, much of their opinions of their world will be very limited to what their parents, friends, gaurdians or those closest to them feel about certian sensitive topics such as religion. How, who and what they are being fed into ones mind all contribute, how strict are they (parents etc.)? How important is this topic to them? Who and what are equally important because they tell us 'how' exactly the product will become in early psychological stages, the 'how' part tells us the range of importance for certain topics such as religion to the product (child). Okay, I hope you got the initial point of what I'm trying to say, I'm really starting to sound like Sigmund Freud.
Anyway, about the "divine punishments" - well, we had great fires in the whole Balkans here and now we have some local big floods at least in Bulgaria. And considering we had great floods the last two years too (and great droughts too), I guess God should be so angry, that any time now a meteorite should hit us. But indeed, my mother (Christian) also made a remark that it appears that the village, which had recently been flooded and there are around 8 or more people dead (and still being found, taken away by the flood) is one of mainly Bulgarian Turks (Muslims). Of course, she and my father quickly renounced this conclusion as a mere coincidence - fires and floods affect all, both Christians and Muslims. So, considering that religions indeed seem to emphasize a lot on such kinds of "apocalyptic" "prophecying", does that mean that Christianity, being more liberal and open-minded (and even a rather Agnostic society to some degree), is weaker as a religion than Islam?
P.S. Wasn't this topic about Indonesia? :rolleyes:
For me, I don't think Christianity is liberal at all, even mild christianity is conservative to me, to Islam, Christianity's spiritual freedom makes it look like liberal scum to some muslims. It all depends on the scale of liberalism in each religion, Islam does preach the Apocalypse just like Christianity, so what makes Islam better? Or what makes Christanity better? Or which one is weaker in your point, is a religion weaker because it's more liberal? I think that's strength, the more open-minded a religion/ideaology is, I mean, Fascism, Nazism, Communism, Marxism-Leninism are all political beliefs that are radical and not liberal or open-minded, does that make them stronger system than liberal states such as the US? The collapse of the Nazi system in Germany, and the Communist system in the USSR proves that these systems are too radical to function in a society, that same thing goes for religion, infact they are both systems of belief, religion and politics, comparing Communism with Democracy and Conservative-Fundamentalist religions to More Open-Minded religions is essentialy the same thing, it is the insecurity of a certian people that forces them to accept these systems into their society, or it's based on previous traditionalism. Whatever the case, politics or religion, the more liberal the religion/political structure the stronger it is.
Looks like the DMZ is back....:crushed:
Navatar
13 Aug 2007, 01:42
Looks like the DMZ is back....:crushed:
What will Fujin say! :eek:
What will Fujin say! :eek:
I might sound like an idiot, but what does DMZ stand for?
Me are watch you! :)
Seriously, do not cross any lines guys. The world has enough problems without us adding into the squabbles.
:bash: :bash: Surely.I don't make this thread DMZ first! I only report what my country is!
And Now there will be the Proclamation Day! Seventeenth August!HooRAY!
Indonesia Raya Merdeka Merdeka
As for the inglorious political fortunes of the Muslims today, I did not feel these to be a reproach against Islam, or to relegate it to an inferior position in a natural order of world ideologies, but rather saw them as a low phase in a larger cycle of history. Foreign hegemony over Muslim lands had been witnessed before in the thorough going destruction of Islamic civilization in the thirteenth century by the Mongol horde, who razed cities and built pyramids of human heads from the steppes of Central Asia to the Muslim heartlands, after which the fullness of destiny brought forth the Ottoman Empire to raise the Word of God and make it a vibrant political reality that endured for centuries. It was now, I reflected, merely the turn of contemporary Muslims to strive for a new historic crystallization of Islam, something one might well aspire to share in
Well,A Muslim help me!
PROCLAMATION
We, the Indonesian people, hereby declare the independence of Indonesia.
Matters concerning the transfer of power, etc., will be carried out in a conscientious manner and as speedily as possible.
Jakarta, 17th day of 8th month, year 05 (note: Japanese calendar year)
In the name of the people of Indonesia
<<Soekarno/Hatta's signatures>> Soekarno - Hatta
I might sound like an idiot, but what does DMZ stand for?DeMilitarized Zone.
To return to the topic :rolleyes: : What I think of Indonesia is that it is a country with beautiful forests entailing similar fauna; that is not the most stable of countries regarding the rebelling minorities; that it is a country, one of the many, having suffered from suppression after colonization (think of the Dutch, and the Japanese during the most recent world war); that it is a country with eighty percent muslims (if I recall correctly), which makes that I'm interested in it's future and it's future in the world. I hope it won't become an Islamic state just as I hope the same for Turkey.
Tzar Simeon Veliki
21 Aug 2007, 00:17
What's all the fuzz about this Indonesia? Why do you bother us with such questions - "do you like my country"... Indonesia War Minister, I think you should stop it with those nationalistic and islam-related threads.
P.S. If all indonesians are like you... God help you.
Atmosphere
21 Aug 2007, 00:43
What's all the fuzz about this Indonesia? Why do you bother us with such questions - "do you like my country"... Indonesia War Minister, I think you should stop it with those nationalistic and islam-related threads.
P.S. If all indonesians are like you... God help you.
There is NOTHING wrong with being patriotic
Indonesia war minister is just proud about where he is from
as am i, and i didnt read in the T&C anything about saying
NO THREADS ABOUT WHERE YOUR FROM OR YOUR RELIGION.
p.s this is in the OTHER section whereyou can talk about OTHER things ty.
There is NOTHING wrong with being patriotic
Indonesia war minister is just proud about where he is from
as am i, and i didnt read in the T&C anything about saying
NO THREADS ABOUT WHERE YOUR FROM OR YOUR RELIGION.
p.s this is in the OTHER section whereyou can talk about OTHER things ty.
I have to disagree. This is more nationalistic than patriotism, why would I honestly care about a country so far away from mine that I am not interested in? Sure, it's a country, nothing extremely special, that's my opinion. As you can see, posting nationalistic topics create controversy, and yes there are some things wrong with open-patriotism as it leads to nationalism some time or another. I am proud of where I come from, where I live and my descent, but I am not making any threads about who else likes it...
PS: The original topic would have just been an illogical, strange question, but then he started rambling about demoralization because of western influence! Which is also made in another thread!
Atmosphere
21 Aug 2007, 01:21
Well you dont need to care, this topic or the message i posted was not to you.
calm down, guys, please
Tzar Simeon and Carbon, if you don't care about Indonesia, don't read posts in thread called Indonesia, it's simple.
IWM is very patriotic and I'd also call him rather nationalistic, but come on, he's much younger than you or me, and most of people need to belong somewhere.
he posts his national anthem in language none of us can understand, I don't know why, but he feels it's good for something, I don't understand it, so I don't bother to read it.
If it would be in English, I'd read it just out of curiousity, just to see the values his homeland is based on to understand it little better, so IWM if you wanna propagate your country, do it more wisely, don't just spam words about Indonesia everywhere.
btw, how do people view the first president of Indonesia, Sukarno, if I'm right?
Well you dont need to care, this topic or the message i posted was not to you.
Yeah but you posted it so the whole public can see, and I am part of the public so I can reply to it, you don't have to be so focused on defending nationalism, I find nationalism quite offensive and disasterous, if something is offensive it's contriversial and unless there's a DMZ, it should not be posted.
And as to what Elvain said, honestly if he posted one thread about Indonesia and kept it clean from something contriversial like saying western influences is corrupting the pure islamic culture, then it's fine with me, but finding 2 or 3 threads, sometimes in the wrong forum, it makes it look like he's on a propedganda campaign!
Richard
21 Aug 2007, 04:24
Yeah but you posted it so the whole public can see, and I am part of the public so I can reply to it, you don't have to be so focused on defending nationalism, I find nationalism quite offensive and disasterous, if something is offensive it's contriversial and unless there's a DMZ, it should not be posted.
And as to what Elvain said, honestly if he posted one thread about Indonesia and kept it clean from something contriversial like saying western influences is corrupting the pure islamic culture, then it's fine with me, but finding 2 or 3 threads, sometimes in the wrong forum, it makes it look like he's on a propedganda campaign!
He reminds me of people's republic of china in the sunflower forums. He used to post alot of stuff about China and how "great" it was all over the place, pretty annoying.
Atmosphere, try not to confuse patriotism with nationalism. To say that those two are equal is to say that right wing conservatives and facists/nazis are the same.
He reminds me of people's republic of china in the sunflower forums. He used to post alot of stuff about China and how "great" it was all over the place, pretty annoying.
Atmosphere, try not to confuse patriotism with nationalism. To say that those two are equal is to say that right wing conservatives and facists/nazis are the same.
Yes I remember him, haha, he wasn't even Chinese, he was an American of Russian-Jewish descent, he is alot stranger than this Indonesia thread.
He reminds me of people's republic of china in the sunflower forums. He used to post alot of stuff about China and how "great" it was all over the place, pretty annoying.the diference is the age.. but I'm glad he's not here, otherwise we'd have fanatic religious war. If you remember it well, PROC was - more than anything else - very militant messianistic jew!
Atmosphere, try not to confuse patriotism with nationalism. To say that those two are equal is to say that right wing conservatives and facists/nazis are the same.I can only totally agree.
Well you dont need to care, this topic or the message i posted was not to you.
When you post in a public forum the message is pretty much to everyone reading the forum. If you are speaking to only one person then you should address it to the one person by placing @ and then their name before your statement, or speak to them privately outside the auspices of the forum, i.e. PM's or IM's.
"Great Indonesia"
Indonesia my native land, the land where I shed my blood.
There I stand, being a soldier of my mother. (Note: "mother" here refers to ibu pertiwi which means 'motherland')
Indonesia my nationality, my nation and my country.
Let us exclaim "United Indonesia!"
Live my land, live my state,
My nation, my people, all.
Build its spirit, build its bodies
For Great Indonesia!
CHORUS:
Great Indonesia, independent and free,
My land, my country, which I love.
Great Indonesia, independent and free,
Live Great Indonesia! (*2)
Indonesia, an eminent country, our wealthy country.
There we shall be forever.
Indonesia, the country of our ancestors, a relic of all of us.
Let us pray for Indonesia's prosperity.
May her soil be fertile and spirited her soul,
The nation and all the people.
Conscious be her heart and her mind
For Indonesia the Great!
CHORUS
Indonesia, a sacred country, our victorious country.
There we stand, guarding our true Mother.
Indonesia, a beaming country, a country we love with all our heart.
Let's make a vow, "Indonesia be there forever!"
Blessed be her people and her sons,
All her islands, and her seas.
Fast be the country's progress and the progress of her youth
For Indonesia the Great!.
CHORUS
The Translation.
Tought it's not as good as the original
Just go to the youtube and serach "Indonesia Raya" if you want to hear it
Atmosphere, try not to confuse patriotism with nationalism. To say that those two are equal is to say that right wing conservatives and facists/nazis are the same.
This is true, but one also must not confuse nationalism with chauvinism, which people often do. Facists and nazis weren't nationalists, but chauvinists.
the diference is the age.. but I'm glad he's not here, otherwise we'd have fanatic religious war. If you remember it well, PROC was - more than anything else - very militant messianistic jew!
I can only totally agree.
Right.IF he here.Then HE and I will battle for the supremacy.Is Indonesia win.OR china?
Jews or Islam.West or East.When I post.HE flamed me.When he post.I flamed him.
LOL
calm down, guys, please
Tzar Simeon and Carbon, if you don't care about Indonesia, don't read posts in thread called Indonesia, it's simple.
IWM is very patriotic and I'd also call him rather nationalistic, but come on, he's much younger than you or me, and most of people need to belong somewhere.
he posts his national anthem in language none of us can understand, I don't know why, but he feels it's good for something, I don't understand it, so I don't bother to read it.
If it would be in English, I'd read it just out of curiousity, just to see the values his homeland is based on to understand it little better, so IWM if you wanna propagate your country, do it more wisely, don't just spam words about Indonesia everywhere.
btw, how do people view the first president of Indonesia, Sukarno, if I'm right?
Right.The most Extremes Muslim say that Him a Communist.Why? Because he make this country secular.However I don't agree with them.If this country's main religion is Islam.Then this nation destined too doom from it's birth.Another Civil War? Like in East Timor? Do anyone know Santa Cruz incident? We just reliates to the Rebels.But when we accidentally attack some civilian, we are banned from importing weapons from USA!
:bash: :bash: WHat About Israel! The Palestinians are attacked every day! And in Iraq!
....................................... Sorry.Most Offtopic.OK so this Extremist believe that Indonesia Raya just a copy from a song in 1600s named Leka Leka Pinda Pinda.:eek: :eek: A anti-Indonesia I suppose.So Ironic
BYE BYE for now.
Wassalamualaykum Warohmatullohi Wabarokatuh
Tzar Simeon Veliki
21 Aug 2007, 18:00
Can you at least explain WHY do you think Indonesia is SOOO great? Because it's muslim? I don't get it, this is the only thing you are talking about...
P.S. Դադարում է խոսել ձեր երկիր անիծված աստվածու մասին
Yep, I also know languages that you don't and are much older than yours ;) So stop feeling proud about it.
Can you at least explain WHY do you think Indonesia is SOOO great? Because it's muslim? I don't get it, this is the only thing you are talking about...
P.S. Դադարում է խոսել ձեր երկիր անիծված աստվածու մասին
Yep, I also know languages that you don't and are much older than yours ;) So stop feeling proud about it.
I hope you'll relise that such claims will only make people think you're a liar rather than making them admire you for your knowledge.
Tzar Simeon Veliki
21 Aug 2007, 18:29
That's not what I'm pointing out. I'm not normally talking in my native language, posting my country's Hymn and so on, am I?
That's not what I'm pointing out. I'm not normally talking in my native language, posting my country's Hymn and so on, am I?
Maybe you personally don't, but the old forum (this one too but not in that amount since it's still rather fresh) was full of lectures about Bulgarian history and posts in Bulgarian language were everywhere, even though it was clearly stated in the rules that the allowed languages in the forum are English and German (apart from one Bulgarian thread).
This is true, but one also must not confuse nationalism with chauvinism, which people often do. Facists and nazis weren't nationalists, but chauvinists.
They were both, but closer to nationalism because they believed in national superiority.
Right.IF he here.Then HE and I will battle for the supremacy.Is Indonesia win.OR china?
Jews or Islam.West or East.When I post.HE flamed me.When he post.I flamed him.
LOL
This post clearly shows you're intense belief that everything is black and white, it appears you think you're the good Indonesian muslim that wasn't influenced by the West and he's the evil Westerner, which is just propaganda you learned from, I'm sorry.
Right.The most Extremes Muslim say that Him a Communist.Why? Because he make this country secular.However I don't agree with them.If this country's main religion is Islam.Then this nation destined too doom from it's birth.Another Civil War? Like in East Timor? Do anyone know Santa Cruz incident? We just reliates to the Rebels.But when we accidentally attack some civilian, we are banned from importing weapons from USA!
:bash: :bash: WHat About Israel! The Palestinians are attacked every day! And in Iraq!
....................................... Sorry.Most Offtopic.OK so this Extremist believe that Indonesia Raya just a copy from a song in 1600s named Leka Leka Pinda Pinda.:eek: :eek: A anti-Indonesia I suppose.So Ironic
BYE BYE for now.
Wassalamualaykum Warohmatullohi Wabarokatuh
You maker it look like all muslims are victims just because they have their beliefs, which makes no sense and if I don't recall, Jews believed in that but they were right, they were persecuted throughout history because of their beliefs! But the US did not invade Iraq for being muslim, Israel does not kill palestinians for being muslims (Palestinians have a muslim majority, but there are jewish and christian palestinian too)
Maybe you personally don't, but the old forum (this one too but not in that amount since it's still rather fresh) was full of lectures about Bulgarian history and posts in Bulgarian language were everywhere, even though it was clearly stated in the rules that the allowed languages in the forum are English and German (apart from one Bulgarian thread).
Yeah I agree, there was quite alot of Bulgaria in the old forum, I think that drove Elvain insane...
They were both, but closer to nationalism because they believed in national superiority.
The belief in national superiority cannot bear more weight than belief in exterminating all the Jews, Slavs, Gypsies and others.
Richard
22 Aug 2007, 02:42
This is true, but one also must not confuse nationalism with chauvinism, which people often do. Facists and nazis weren't nationalists, but chauvinists.
And in what moment did I made such comparison?
Anyways, the way I see it, nationalism is fanatical patriotism, but like almost all things it has a good and bad side though maybe much more of a bad than a good. chauvinism is natianalism taken to its worst extreme.
And in what moment did I made such comparison?
Anyways, the way I see it, nationalism is fanatical patriotism, but like almost all things it has a good and bad side though maybe much more of a bad than a good. chauvinism is natianalism taken to its worst extreme.
Nationalism is good when you're country is being persecuted or ruled from another, but it's bad if the belief is national superiority. Chauvinism is just being patriotic to you're sex or race at the cost of thinking that race or sex is better than others.
to Xuca - Nazis wanted to create a Greater German Empire by destroying all countries in Eastern Europe, they believed that race, leader and nation are essentially the same thing (that was their motto) and because their nation is superior so is their race which lead to hierarchy, cleansing etc. So it is not Chauvinism by defintion, extreme nationalism, they were after all called National Socialists.
If this country's main religion is Islam.Then this nation destined too doom from it's birth.Another Civil War? Like in East Timor? Do anyone know Santa Cruz incident? We just reliates to the Rebels.But when we accidentally attack some civilian, we are banned from importing weapons from USA!
:bash: :bash: WHat About Israel! The Palestinians are attacked every day! And in Iraq!
as fr Israel and Iraq, Palestinians die every day, such as Indonesians, Czechs, Americans, British and people of every nation die every day as effect of someone elses violence.
it always has diferent reasons.
Iraqi people die in most cases from hands of "true muslims" who decided to fight the Americans. So why the hell do they kill Iraqi muslims? sunni or shiite?
In Israel "every day" many people die from hands of suicide bombers. Some of them (the bombers) advocate their attacks from religious view, while the Israelis advocate their counter actions (quite terrible to see - such as destroying buildings of families of suicide bombers, especially when you see it on your own eyes), but it's not done for religious reasons (most of Jews in Israel are more or less secular, and Orthodox Jews don't even serve in the army!), but to protect citizens of Israel, including many muslims who, btw, are also victims of those suicide bombers.
What's black? what's white? Once you see somethiíng on your own eyes and think about it, you see no strict this is good, that's evil!
3) I join Tzar Simeon's question:
IWM, why do you think your contry is so great? I wonder
PS: I've personally talked to several Palestinians who think that the country they live in - Israel - is also great. They were Arab muslm Palestinians and were pretty much proud to be citizens of Israel, though admitting they don't have all rights a Jew has there (military service) what would you think about them? what do they deserve?
Maybe you personally don't, but the old forum (this one too but not in that amount since it's still rather fresh) was full of lectures about Bulgarian history and posts in Bulgarian language were everywhere, even though it was clearly stated in the rules that the allowed languages in the forum are English and German (apart from one Bulgarian thread).
Xuca, don't make me remind you that you posted in the History thread too and that's because I asked you, because the thread was becoming mostly "Bulgarian History" rather than just "History" (i.e. only I was posting and I can't post about other people's history, unless I'm really sure I know it). And I asked several times for the others to post something about their history, before I finally got bored. And the only posts in Bulgarian language were in the BG clan and one, later translated post, which caused the linguistic controversy.
P.S. Is it me who can't read or have I really not seen IWM claiming that his country is "soooo great"? So far I've seen him to be only a patriot, quite enthusiastic (quite normal for his age), but not really reaching nationalism or chauvinism. And I don't mind his enthusiasm, if only he would just keep things orderly and not in tens of separate threads.
I see the need of a DMZ. But then, I think, after Frujin reads the above, he'll probably refrain from creating one.
I would humbly suggest not to post in different languages than English and perhaps leave the hot topics be as long as we don't have a demilitarized zone (and no mods!) - or we mightn't get one, don't you agree?
to Xuca - Nazis wanted to create a Greater German Empire by destroying all countries in Eastern Europe, they believed that race, leader and nation are essentially the same thing (that was their motto) and because their nation is superior so is their race which lead to hierarchy, cleansing etc. So it is not Chauvinism by defintion, extreme nationalism, they were after all called National Socialists.
Yes they were called National Socialists, despite the fact that they were far right and wanted to destroy communism and socialism. That already makes part of their name questionable. And I agree with Richard to some point, chauvinism IS extreme nationalism, maybe not by definition, but in practice it leads to the same thing.
Xuca, don't make me remind you that you posted in the History thread too and that's because I asked you, because the thread was becoming mostly "Bulgarian History" rather than just "History" (i.e. only I was posting and I can't post about other people's history, unless I'm really sure I know it). And I asked several times for the others to post something about their history, before I finally got bored. And the only posts in Bulgarian language were in the BG clan and one, later translated post, which caused the linguistic controversy.
I was not refering to the History thread, in fact, I enjoyed that thread very much. I was talking about discussions in the KoH forum where most of discussions about history were used by Bulgarians to talk about their. Also I wasn't talking about the clan thread, but other threads. It's probable that you remembered just that one case because it was the only one that caused controversy, but there were many others, usually by new Bulgarian members or when one Bulgarian wanted to reply to another. These often just passed with a friendly warning from a mod's side, or were even completely overlooked.
I was not refering to the History thread, in fact, I enjoyed that thread very much. I was talking about discussions in the KoH forum where most of discussions about history were used by Bulgarians to talk about their. Also I wasn't talking about the clan thread, but other threads. It's probable that you remembered just that one case because it was the only one that caused controversy, but there were many others, usually by new Bulgarian members or when one Bulgarian wanted to reply to another. These often just passed with a friendly warning from a mod's side, or were even completely overlooked.
Hmm, I have no such memories. But I didn't read much of the threads in the SF forums the last year or so, so I guess it's possible... :rolleyes:
I see many Bulgarian languange in SF so I become crazy!:(
Ah, so that's the reason? :D (J/k) ;)
I see many Bulgarian languange in SF so I become crazy!:(
And you do the same thing and drive others crazy? You're logic makes no sense.
IWM, sorry if you take this as personal flaw, but are you able to any kind of self-reflection?
didn't you realize why this all usless discussion took place here?
because one guy who floods this forum with Indonesia everywhere... do you want me to count all threads where you mentioned Indonesia though it had absolutely no connection to the topic?
and Nike, I like Xuca meant not Bulgarian thread, but all those threads that were kidnapped into bulgarian topic.
I would humbly suggest not to post in different languages than English....
Actually, in another thread, Frujin addressed that the official language here is English and that no other languages should be used. He addressed the issue after someone had posted in, ironically, Bulgarian! :D
Actually, in another thread, Frujin addressed that the official language here is English and that no other languages should be used. He addressed the issue after someone had posted in, ironically, Bulgarian! :D
Apparently the rules doesn't exist because it isn't enforced, raising the need for moderators, if someone becomes a moderator Frujin doesn't have to worry about policing the forum.
Actually, in another thread, Frujin addressed that the official language here is English and that no other languages should be used. He addressed the issue after someone had posted in, ironically, Bulgarian! :DExactly, the single allowed language is English; since I am no Moderator, I cannot enforce it, but can suggest it.
Apparently the rules doesn't exist because it isn't enforced, raising the need for moderators, if someone becomes a moderator Frujin doesn't have to worry about policing the forum.I don't agree with 'the rule doesn't exist because it isn't enforced', but agree on the need of Moderators.
I apologize.
Sorry, sorry sorry sorry
:confused: :sad:
LoL I'm reading the Threads in the Thirsty Lamb and.... my God... We need moderators here... Btw, I find IWM's topics really... uhmmm.... I don't know... uhmm strange- post about the "great Indonesia" Ahmm "Ramadan" or wathever it was :|
Btw, Did Frujin read this Thread ? I meen did somebody "Report" it :\
What for? It's an old thread, which would have remained such, if it wasn't resurected!
And IWM has been banned, so what is the big deal at this point. And as Nike stated it would have been buried deeper in the archives had it not been resurrected.
I didn't know that IWM is is banned... I was going to suggest it :)
ban him just because he opens topics that some of us find controversial?
he often brought a controversial topic with very radical way of interpretation, but I haven't ever seen anyone to be so flexible in "ooptimizing "his opinions after someone else brought him valid arguments.
I still don't understand why he was banned :sad:
Another one of King (or Santa) Frujin's mysteries, I guess... It would be good if the mod/admin who banned him would say why and for how long - some forums even have special places where such announcements are made (warnings, bans etc.)
Mephistopheles
26 Dec 2007, 17:12
I think Frujin defused the situation preemptively because there simply are no moderators to jump in if a controversial discussion goes awry.
Frujin offered me to become a moderator before, but I don't participate in many discussions and thus decided that I don't want to be a moderator when I don't also take part in the discussion myself. That's simply my style of moderation.
I'd rather suggest to find another place for controversial topics and leave this forum to it's purpose, KoH and WS.
I am sorry, sorry, and sorry.
But I will take this debate to other places, if anyone interested...