View Full Version : Xenoshards costs increase
As you noticed we increased the cost for exploring new specialization to 10 shards and we increased the maximum to 50 shards. Also, the cost for reset was increased to 50 shards as well. I would like to explain a bit the change as it seems the new numbers cause some misunderstanding.
So, previous maximum was 10 shards. And there was a certain chances for an item to generate a shard when recycled. Also, there was a number of items usually collected in each game. At some point we decided we would like to create better feedback for a how the players are "progressing" but we did lack "resolution" with the old numbers. So, what we did was actually increasing the number of items players are getting from each dungeon, increasing the chances for items to generate shards AND increasing the maximum and costs.
At the end, the efficiency of shards generation and the frequency of specializations resets will remain more or less the same. The only significant difference will be that the players will get better feeling for "moving ahead".
May be it was bad idea that we did all this across several updates instead of in one single update. There was few days where there were already increased item drops and increased chances but still the old maximums and costs. At the end, there is no significant change to how accessible resetting is whatsoever.
You have two wrong assumptions here:
1) You assume that all players will play locations regularly and this way get multiple drops increasing their shards that way. That is wrong. Competitive players will mostly play pvp, maybe trying the locations once in the beginning. With the reset cost this high you are forcing them to play locations in order to try different tactics. VERY annoying.
2) This is not an indication for player "progress", this is "grind" in its most ugly form. Even moreso because shards are expendable resource and will switch back to 0 once you reset. Where is the progress here?!
Seriously, stopping people from experimenting is the worse thing that can happen to an RTS game. I will not start the discussion about grind in mmorpg games because it is a large topic in itself. But it is not gonna work in this game. The grind <-> reward (progress) relation is missing here. You don't gain levels here, you don't progress in any way through shards. What you gain is the opportunity to TRY a different spec, but you also LOSE you previous spec in the same time and have to grind again for it. Very bad. Very annoying.
This is not an indication for player "progress", this is "grind" in its most ugly form.
Although we see where your points comes from, we do not agree on the word "grind". 10 xenoshards comes really fast, faster than you need them once you explore all the trees. Mass-experiementing is viable only initially. Specilizations are connected with the items. To maximize your performance you would like to have both sides working together towards your preffered tactics.
There is another point in your comment which made me think for an improvement. May be we can consider giving the option to reset the specilizations also with Battle Points. So the payers can choose.
Specilizations are connected with the items. To maximize your performance you would like to have both sides working together towards your preffered tactics.The problem with a preferred tactik is, that it will hardly be the same in PvP as it is in PvE.
Although getting 10 Xenoshards for unlocking the talents is quite a good number, I guess that 50 shards for respeccing is just way too much, especially when this is the set maximum as well.
I usually play Tribe, in PvE I use mostly Shamans + Brutes. The spec I need to be able to tank and heal at the same time is absolutely useless in PvP. This means that, if I wanted to enjoy both parts of the game, I'd have to respec constantly. That is just an example and I think I'm not alone there...
In a game like WoW (where I play prot war btw, so I know this problem) the idea of having to pay to respec and be viable for the other part of the game works out because gold comes easy and can be stored in way larger amounts than the shards right here.
So while I understand your point, that the raise of cost for unlocking the talents affects the gaming experience and feeling of progress positively, I guess that it is not a good idea to make players chose what part of the game they want to play and stick with this for quite a while everytime. This splits not only the game but also the community in pure PvE'ers and pure PvP'ers although they might like the other part of the game but are unable to experience both because of high respec costs.
If you still think that the high respec costs are alright then at least raise the maximum of shards to at least 100. This way you could *farm* 100 shards in PvE, spec for PvP, play a little, then spec back to PvE and be able to continue right where you stopped without having to farm safari for two to three hours to get enough shards to be viable in the later maps again.
Apart from that it simply murders your game expereience if you have to keep farming shards because you accidentally klicked the wrong talent and cannot revert that right now because you ran out of shards...
PS: Sorry for (possible) bad grammar, I'm German :/
ArmaniMania
2 Apr 2008, 17:36
The perfect solution for this would be the having alternative spec witch you could change on the fly, so we, players, could choose between those 2 with simple click of the button, that way you could keep high xenos cost for respec.
The perfect solution for this would be the having alternative spec witch you could change on the fly, so we, players, could choose between those 2 with simple click of the button, that way you could keep high xenos cost for respec.
This is a really good idea!
The perfect solution for this would be the having alternative spec witch you could change on the fly, so we, players, could choose between those 2 with simple click of the button, that way you could keep high xenos cost for respec.This is being suggested on WoW Forums ever since I can imagine but nothing happend. That's why I didn't even bother mentioning it but yes, it WOULD be the perfect solution.
Mephistopheles
2 Apr 2008, 19:48
Wouldn't it make it too easy? You select one PvP optimized ability grid, one PvE grid and then you never have to make a compromise again.
Right now you have to look for strategies that works with an ability grid that works in both PvE and PvP. It's pretty difficult and I think it's an important skill to come up with smart lineup/items/skill combinations so you can compete in PvP *and* prevail in PvE.
Right now the game forces you to make a compromise. You can't have perfect PvE optimization *and* perfect PvP optimization. I like that. Don't take that out of the game.
What can be more perfect than discarding the whole shards business, really?
I can't find a single plus of the whole shards idea, no matter of the cost adjustments - they will only increase or diminish the problem, not eliminate it.
And Frujin, you are missing one more possibility - there is inventory for items, which allows for at least a few different item configurations. On the opposite - there is only one spec configuration.
And second, don't bury your game with statements like "mass-experimenting is viable only initially". This kinda shocked me and I really hope you don't truly mean it. Experimenting is what online/multiplayer games live upon. Experiments and EVER-changing meta. Stale meta = death of the game.
Didn't really read most of the posts but I have to say that 50 is ok by me. AFAIK before that it took 1 shard to get a star - which is by all means too low cost.Even with 50 I managed to get 8 in just 1 night . So much for progress. Locations are meant for artifact hunting. You can spend all day in PvP - and get your ass zomfgwtfpwnt by someone with better artifacts. Then you will go artifact hunting. As for shards - if you do want to restart that bad ,perhaps cost of 15 -20 (25?) would be more reasonable
An increase of maximum number of shadrs can solve some problems as well.
emosquito
2 Apr 2008, 23:25
The perfect solution for this would be the having alternative spec witch you could change on the fly, so we, players, could choose between those 2 with simple click of the button, that way you could keep high xenos cost for respec.
I like this Idea very much~ you can make it 10-15 shards to switch back and forth too
jediguardian
3 Apr 2008, 21:49
Wouldn't it make it too easy? You select one PvP optimized ability grid, one PvE grid and then you never have to make a compromise again.
Right now you have to look for strategies that works with an ability grid that works in both PvE and PvP. It's pretty difficult and I think it's an important skill to come up with smart lineup/items/skill combinations so you can compete in PvP *and* prevail in PvE.
Right now the game forces you to make a compromise. You can't have perfect PvE optimization *and* perfect PvP optimization. I like that. Don't take that out of the game.
I absolutely agree. The shards are fine now. The idea to use battlepoints for respec is also good.
I've only been playing for a few weeks, but i agree something had to change about the number of shards allowed, me and my roommate both unlocked all the skills and had enough to reset once or twice in under 2 weeks. On the flip side, having respecced my terrans out of tanking the day before the change went through, the 50 shards seems a long way off. The annoying part is i only moved 2 stars, and I'm sure I'm not the only one who likes to fine tune their builds. I think it would be nice to have an option to buy back a star or two at say 5 or 10 shards a piece. This would allow people to stockpile some flexibility and encourage a little experimentation. As it stands, even if i got some sweet new pieces of equipment, I'd be very hesitant to lock myself into a new build for half a month just to see how effective they can be.
-Navis
You people play too much grind shit and not enough real competition games... :/
Competition is ALL about experimenting.
Beejinator
4 Apr 2008, 18:58
What if you could buy a new specialization template? For 50 shards or equivalent battle points you could buy a blank template, perhaps two or three. Then we could customize our armies for the role they are playing, i.e. tank, dps, pvp. This way we have options, but have to earn them.
shards are nothing but a detriment to this game, after you've unlocked all the abilities.
sure. have them to UNLOCK the skills
BUT. increase the shard cost for the better skills (the ones at the bottom haha)... that would give the game a REAL sense of accomplishment, theres no better feeling than a level up, and a perceived level up is much better than nothing... working towards something new is one thing, and a very very awesome thing at that, i could imagine the feeling of unlocking +25% lord commander HP after hours and hours of shard farming (yeah more than 50 or something), it would be easily on par with any decent MMO. working towards something OLD is disgusting.
having the reset system FORCES someone to play PvE or PvP
i want both. but as it stands i can only effectively do PvE (which i'm better at anyhow.. but not being able to practice doesn't help)
grind+RTS=stupidest invention ever. please. don't feel proud.
grind+RTS=stupidest invention ever. please. don't feel proud.
:) .. I couldn't resist smiling on the way you put this .. :) .. well said!
Yes we will reduce a lot the shards cost for changing specializations! Although, SOME cost is needed in order to keep persistence in players choice.
Spellguy
5 Apr 2008, 00:10
You could do something like: with more resets of specializations grows the price of it. Its a long time to wait for the first reset i think... 50 shards is a lot.
harmannus
6 Apr 2008, 11:15
What if you could buy a new specialization template? For 50 shards or equivalent battle points you could buy a blank template, perhaps two or three. Then we could customize our armies for the role they are playing, i.e. tank, dps, pvp. This way we have options, but have to earn them.
I like this idea. this way you can enjoy both pve and pvp, and even if you only like playing one you can still use this options to "save" a build. In my mmorpg experience, I find it verry enjoyable to experiment with different builds, and I would find it verry frustrating to have to constantly farm for shards just so that I can throw away what I've found out, and have to start all over by resetting everytime.
With a system like this one, you could make a new template for a build (for all three sides, or perhaps just one) experiment on it, and with a reset cost for, say 10-15 shards for each template, u could optimise a build, and still need to play enough for unlocking the skills on each template (here the idea of higher costs for better skills is attractive, I think).
If people think that being able to unlock more templates will ruin the game cuz some folks having a hundred or so templates after a while, at least think of the idea of being able to have more than one: it will make things easier for a big group of 'casual players', who simply dont have the time to gater the funds necassary for resetting.
last but not least: This way its easier for to people have a pvp side and a pve side, wich provides a better acces to both sides of the game. :go:
Why don't just limit the templates? That way sure will not ruin the game.