View Full Version : Humans vs Tribes
In another thread I described some basic strategies against the tribes, but those only work on new players and with lots of luck. I just can't find a reliable way to beat a tribes players rather than outplay them at least 2:1(still no guarantees).
Everything the human player attempts is countered by a combo of freeze,chill and fire - to add insult to injury call one tornado and it's gg -brutes all over the place and you can't move a meter because of stun or freeze. You can't kill them because despite the 8 dmg they deal they make short work of pretty much anything ,and can tank almost anything. If he doesn;t want sorcerers guardians do just damn fine -telleporting right on top of your leaders and stunning them - high hp ensures they will kill you before you kill them - I can keep listing things . It is way OTT to lose to someone who doesn't bother to issue more than 300 commands (most of which related to artifact scavenging )and you have 1400+ just trying to stay alive and get away from the brutes,guardians,tornadoes,fire,freeze ,chill and pretty much averything else except for warriors maybe.
And no - the "all mighty" trooper spam doesn't work ,unless you are pumped up with some pretty purple-looking artifacts
Thanks for the feedback, we are thinking on this part of the balance.
I did a test with tribes vs humans no items and i have lost. A good portion of my win i think/know is that my purples/oranges are helping a lot. oh and i play tribes and people with probably say i'm IMBA :P
The problem is not really in the fire (unless it is pumped up with items). You can pretty much counter this with 2 surgeons with relief cells.
The problem is in freeze and howling horror's fear chains and unnaturally high HP sorcerers.
Here is what I have suggested 2 weeks ago about Tribes:
Do not increase Freeze duration with items.
Maybe decrease Howl's Fear with 1 more second.
Nerf the High Priest's healing aura.
Decrease Sorcerer's hp a little.
Nerf the Temple's aura.
Nerf Fire Lash.
All of these are still valid, imo.
There is a general problem with crowd control in the game which is further emphasized by the ability to increase duration with items. For all it is worth, I strongly recommend against boosting any crowd control skill duration with artifacts.
Yea Crowdcontrol is THE key to multiplayer. The 3 years of playing WoW teached me at least that one thing ;). When I looked on the talent-trees in this game i saw the increasing talent for the cult-freez and said "PVP TALENT!".
The items break it even more, a fight takes usually not more then 10sec's. Add up the control-skills... here we have a "controlled" battle.
There is a general problem with crowd control in the game which is further emphasized by the ability to increase duration with items. For all it is worth, I strongly recommend against boosting any crowd control skill duration with artifacts.
what you suggest would totally break cult. the only strengh cult actually have is their crowd control. after they nerfed the lifeleech amount on items for the manipulators they are the worst healers ingame (the randomheal spell they have is just a joke). the cults damage is average and on top of that, most of their units (officers excluded) have to get in meleerange to do damage, which is hard enough when your whole army is slowed (hurricane, sorcerers aoe slow spell) or the ranged units of the enemy do more dmg in meleerange than your melee units and are thougher than them (troopers...).
the only thing cult can rely on, is their crowd control (fear, dimension chain, procs such as harvesters aoe-stun excluded because too luck dependent). stacking the duration of this spells is just as elementary as damage/armor buffs for troopers if you play mass troopers or warriors ie.
i agree with the hitpoints of sorcerers. every race has an "damagedealer" officer, cult has arbiters, human has assassins, tribe has sorcerers. arbiters and assassins both have a bit over 300 hitpoints, why do the sorcerers have so much more hitpoints, is there a reason i dont see? they dont need to have the same amount of hitpoints/stats/abilities (to guarantee the uniqueness of the 3 races) but they have almost as double(?) as much hitpoints as the other two "damagedealer".
What I feel problematic is the "taunt abilities" like lord commander's confuse, brute's skill on chance on hit, (and harvester's specialized hit?). When my units are under the taunt effect of the brutes I can't move them, I can't use their skills. I suggest modifying this effect in a way that units under taunt should be able to move and use skills but they can not attack other than the "taunter". This is a way too powerful ability for a small and "spammable" unit like the brutes. And of course maybe I'm wrong and there should be a proper tactic against them what I didn't find out yet.
What happens if I don't put any point to the harvester's taunt skill on the specialization tree but I have artifacts that raise it's chance? My guess it's nothing :)
What happens if I don't put any point to the harvester's taunt skill on the specialization tree but I have artifacts that raise it's chance? My guess it's nothing
It works.
fifthmystic
3 Apr 2008, 21:13
nice some1 else realise how imba its really is.. :) NERF NERF NERF :P or.. human plasma bomb should have slowing effect also :)
Quick question would it be right to remove stats to freeze when every other skill gets to boost their skills with items?
Humans don't need to complain at all.
But on the other hand cc is realy a bit too powerfull, i think the time boni on these abilities should be removed completely.
well after there is something "a bit too powerfull" ppl should complain about it ,especially if it is nearly impossible to counter
DeGraffenried
4 Apr 2008, 03:28
*sigh* :(
PvP taunt, with ensnarig/silence effect.... lol, thats all I can say. Major mistake. But we allready have a solution for that old pve/pvp skillproblem.
Remove the silence/ensnare effect and let the taunted only attack the taunter.
It is quite simple really. Remove item bonuses to CC durations from the game. Then it could be balanced, probably. No point reducing basic durations when you can add 4-5-6 seconds with artifacts...
After mulling over the differences between the factions, the one noticeable deficit that humans have is decent CC. They've got one unit with the ability to do so, and that puts the commander directly in the line of fire for a bunch of units. Even this, however, is a very limited duration skill, unless you want to put your commander out there for even longer by using items... Due to the limited casting range, it also requires the commander to get quite close before casting, thus becoming a CC victim himself.
In fact, I'll go so far as to say that in general, humans get the crap end of the deal when it comes to AOE skills. The hellfire's skill does massive FF damage if not used carefully, and takes an inept opponent or multiple hellfires to get close enough to use it. Assault bots' missile barage just doesn't do that much damage, especially for 4 unit points (not to mention how weak in HP assault bots are). The only half-way decent AOE skill that humans have (not counting relief cell here) is proton grenade, and even then, it takes two to do a good job, and due to its limited range, it's often hard to get two judges in close enough without them being CC'd (see above).
</rant>
-Grant.
Kenamyan
5 Apr 2008, 20:54
Ive been playing enough with all 3 races to have a full set of purples/oranages for each. I honestly see nothing wrong with any currently. I wouldnt call myself a master of any but I can hold my own quite well. All it comes down to is what you're using to try and fight the person...
Theres a number of Human players that know exactly how to win vs decently geared Tribes / Cult. There are some devestating combos that as a Human player you can drop on any power users, I'll probably regret this haha, proton shot or even 2 followed by a nuke is going to make short work of tribes is it not? I know it did for me... left me cursing human for the next 5min.
Single grouping your units and using attack move is simply a dice roll. Dont let those tribes freeze / incinerate all your units at once. They cast on a few and they'll be the ones running when your second group from the right is all over them.
It is going to finish the tribe player off - if he stand there and takes the beating and doesn't freeze the judges and move away from the beacon -which isn't too hard to spot.
Beacons are actually best for moving the other player in a position. You don't use them to do the damage - which is, of course, an option, but to force the other guy to reposition in a direction desired by yourself.
Also, about Confuse. I think it is one of the more balanced abilities in the game. It is very strong but comes with serious drawbacks. So there is a great reward if you use it well and a severe punishment if you use it wrong.
This is the kind of balance which should be applied to the other abilities. Look at Fear Shock - it has a good range and good 6 seconds duration. Which is nicely counter-balanced by the slow execution and long recharge time; I am pretty sure this is the slowest CC ability in the game. So far, so good. And here come the artifacts and ruin everything. Because you can add a significant duration bonus to Fear Shock with items and thus send the balance to the trash can. Same goes for the other CC abilities. Freeze would be perfect (well, almost) if it could not be elongated with items, etc.
what if we make a DM mode where items don't work. I bet that it would work great. i bet that without item human and tribes have a good balance between each other.
I would say that without items, humans and cult should be pretty evenly matched now as well.
-Grant.