Ideal medieval RTS and KoH2?

[elvain]

So we have thread for Ideas for Knights of Honor 2 where most of us describe what we would like to have there...

but we all are dreamers

I'm afraid that in you've proven me wrong that I'm as much of a dreamer as you are :D
I realized I prefere to think about wonderfull but too general ideas you suggested in some viable concept so it limits the idealism for more realism (in meaning of 'possible' rather than 'accurate')
Oh, well, they're a bit too dreamy, actually, and it would go off-topic, but...

My dream Strategy game would be more of a "history simulator" which accurately simulates historic events, but still allows for the player to change history. And it would be damn realistic.

It would have several different levels, from a world-view similar to the Paradox Games down to a detailed view like in Stronghold or Settlers. Gameplay would be a combination of Total War [battles], Stronghold [siege battles and castle building], Victoria [historical events and complex diplomacy] and several of my own ideas. As said, it would be way too complex to make with current technology [would probably lag like hell on any normal PC, and take longer to produce than Duke Nukem Forever] and it would be off-topic to tell more details:D :p
Otherwise, Frank summed it up rather well, though my ideas are more for a complete "reality simulator", with full reality of all kinds of physics and most of all - absolutely real psychology for every single "unit" (which means a perfect and logical (as much as a human can be logical, that is) AI, which is different for everyone) and it's not only a strategy. But that's off-topic indeed!

As for KoH2 - I support Elvain - one of the things I most want is a various style of gameplay (the aforementioned "simple and detailed" styles), so you can play for a free light-headed fun in the simple, or delve deeper into the details once you've mastered the simple one and want to have more options available. :)


Hmm, My perfect medieval era game would be one with an improved EUII world map and improved history simulation, Crusader king's character system, Victorias's pop system plus a similar economical(a more realistic one)/political system that resembles the mid ages, Koh's knights (though Ck's char system would take care of it to some extend), HOI's military system(worked to match medieval warfare)and Total Wars detailed battlefields.

The problem is, that few would like such a complex game, seeing as most gamers only care about eye candy and fast, simplistic gameplay.

so I realized I'm not really a dreamer. I think it's more worthy to think about concepts that are somehow more or less doable.

I would love to have multi-level game with ability to place every building exactly where I want and have every single city diferent and once my empire gets larger to be able to leave this to AI or somehow not being bothered by it and do other things such as deal with my vasals or diplomacy.

But come on, KoH is what we all ask for, just it doesn't (can't) go as deep into each of those parts as those other games do.

And thugh I never played Crusader kings I don't like the way it is flooded by personalities you are bothered with with no real possibility to get over it. I think there's too much of detail that costs not only playability and - IMO - also realism (accurancy), but also some other nice things my ideal game should have (ability to lead armies if i want, city/empire building etc)

that's why I asked you for those ideas in KOH2 ideas thread, I think KoH is great combination of all of this, and we could help the BSS to find a way to give us more detail, but ballanced and the important thing is not to sacrifice playability. What to do with 'ideal game' with plenty of great features if they all together make the game sbsolutely unplayable?

[Mephistopheles]

I think those excessively complex ideas are all good if you can devote 10 hours a day for a game but unfortunately I'm usually limited to 2 hours maximum a day, which means I appreciate games that are very accessable so I can start playing properly within a matter of minutes.

I too have ideas about pretty cool and very complex game-mechanisms. However, while I'd surely enjoy them if I had the time to, in reality I would never have the leisure time to actually play such games.

[JarlFrank]

Well, I played and enjoyed the Paradox Games and many old school dungeon crawler RPGs with a hell lot of character management [I even play Dwarf Fortress occasionally and like it], so that means I like complexity:)

But how much complexity would be good for KoH2? Well, KoH never tried to be a history or realism simulator, but a fun RTS with nice politics and diplomacy and battles, so I would never ask the devs to include all features that I have in my mind for my dream game. But a bit more complexity in some sectors would be nice.

Well, first thing... the battles. Would be lovely to have larger units, with about 100 soldiers each or more... I just love mass battles [Europa Barbarorum, a mod for Rome Total War, is one of my favourites... even Rome's unit sizes are small against that!] and a few more soldiers on the field can't hurt:p
Now, more tactical options would be nice too [formations etc], but the general dynamics of battle in KoH should be kept [new things could include stuff like a kneeling formation for spearmen and things like that].

Now, hmm... cultures would be nice, as said in the other thread. A detail level of Victoria would be nice there, with migrations and similar things, but that would mabye be too much detail [and thus, micromanagement]. An area of recruitment system should be good, too. KoH already had something like that already, but not as detailed as, say, Europa Barbarorum. There should be way more special units, and they might depend on culture of a region [I think EB solved that in a nice way, too... every region had a set culture, be it Greek, Roman, Germanic, Gallic etc, and depending on the culture of the region you could hire different kinds of soldiers].

Another little detail that has probably never been done before would be selling of military units to trading partners. Someone is at war with a strong enemy, and has enough money but not enough people and food to recruit enough soldiers. So, you could just sell him a few units for, say, double the usual price. Would be a nice new game dynamic.

[elvain]

My dream Strategy game would be more of a "history simulator" which accurately simulates historic events, but still allows for the player to change history. And it would be damn realistic.

It would have several different levels, from a world-view similar to the Paradox GamesI just got through a discussion on Paradox forums about their next title..

notable nulber of people there complain that Paradox game (Voctoria, namely) are too full if events so the player who knows history has big advantage as he knows what is going to happen.

I think it's the worst thing a game can be about. The game - espacialy a history simulation - should not be about repeating history exactly and be forced to it, but about making little changes that may cause grand change.
so the AI should primarily behave rationaly and in some crucial cases, if all requirements are met, the event shold happend, but not regardless it's requirements (f.i. Basileios II would never humiliate his emperorship by marriage with prince of Kiev if he wouldn't need his Varangians - and thus Russia wouldn't accept Orthodox christianity (at least not that soon and from Constantinople)

another example given: if Philip the Fair of France would not marry Joan of Navarre, or if some of his sons marry other princess than they did, the direct line of Capetians would not finnish, English Plantagenets would not claim the throne of France, so there would be no 100 years war, or the chance would be much smaller, or the war would require other diferent hostilities between England and France. So game event would be:
requirements:
king of France dies heirless
king of England is son of princess of France
answer: king of England claims throne of France and declares war on new king of France

The same with end of Bohemian king line (Przemyslid dynasty). It ended when Henry of Luxembourg was the emperor, so his son became king of Bohemia. But Bohemian king Wenceslas III could survive assasination in 1305 and die 10 years later, also heirless. But now a Luxembourg event would have no real connection to historical reality - Bohemian nobles would no way ask John of Luxembourg to be king of Bohemia, as the actual emperor would be Luis of Bavaria - so he or his relatives would have high chance of becoming new kings of Bohemia. So the event wouldn't be: 1305 king of Bohemia is assassinated and new king of Bohemia will be John of Luxembourg. The event would be:
conditions: king of Bohemia dies heirless
answer1: unmarried princess of Bohemia is offered to the actual emperor of HRE

[poster]

i believe frank and i dream alike, so no comments needed there.
We all want reality, if u got reality, then u automatically get history.

but if you guys want more ideas i say, try lords of the realm 2 and the siege pack expansion(a must have).
http://free-game-downloads.mosw.com/abandonware/pc/strategy_games/games_j_l/lords_of_the_realm_2.html
this, to me, still is the master example of a strategy game. KoH was the only game that ever challenged it, so i recommend it.
(it goes in line with franks description, but its a very old game :D ).
and you're welcome to meet me for multiplayer.

oh and here is the faq:http://www.gamefaqs.com/computer/doswin/file/197801/33216
you'll need it if u intend to get the most of the game(using complex game structures, like advanced farming). read on.

laters guys.:go: