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The hardest kingdom to play or the kingdom that is in most disadvantage position ?
What do you khink ? I think that Bulgaria is one of this kingdoms... in all AARs Bulgaria is wiped out early :confused: Athens are hard to play too :)
The hardest kingdom to play or the kingdom that is in most disadvantage position ?
What do you khink ? I think that Bulgaria is one of this kingdoms... in all AARs Bulgaria is wiped out early :confused: Athens are hard to play too :)
No Bulgaria seems in a pretty good position, several kingdoms to the east and the west that can be wiped out. I think Jerusalem and Bohemia, Jerusalem is surrounded by islamic states that are very large, and Bohemia because it's surrounded by Germany, Poland and Hungary.
No Bulgaria seems in a pretty good position, several kingdoms to the east and the west that can be wiped out. I think Jerusalem and Bohemia, Jerusalem is surrounded by islamic states that are very large, and Bohemia because it's surrounded by Germany, Poland and Hungary.
I agree.
One more argument for Jerusalem that makes it lead in my eyes is that all it's provinces are muslim and there is no close catholic province where piety could be gained.
Also Bohemia and Jerusalem are comparatively smaller than Bulgaria and Bohemia has no access to sea what also is big disadvantage IMO
AI have also one more candidate: Flanders (in Holy Rome high period) which is surrounded by the HRE, France and England, has only one province and is vasal of France
Bulgaria has all these guys don't have, or have just partly:
enough provinces, access to sea, provinces with own religion, smaller kingdoms on their borders
Jes but in Bohemia can be train better units, West heavy warriors :rolleyes:
For Jeruslaem I agree
Ohh and Volga BUlgaria in HR is hard
Btw, have you seen big Bulgaria in your campeigns ?
but in Bohemia can be train better units, West heavy warriors :rolleyes:
Ohh and Volga BUlgaria in HR is hard
I agree, Bohemia has better units, but not in HR mod (byzantian spearmen and Bulgars could IMO be called strong units (and Bulgars VERY strong)
and are you serious? In most of my games Volga Bulgaria(ns) are by far the strongest state in Russia - good units (I know that Russians have Varangians and Boyars, but Bulgars are good) and especially that great morale bonus!
Btw, have you seen big Bulgaria in your campeigns ?
I did, though I agree that Orthodox states are often weaker. But especially in the early period Bulgaria is the strongest state of the Balkans - Byzantines have serious problems with them and none of their major opponents is as strong as in other periods (especially Hungary)
Btw, have you seen big Bulgaria in your campeigns ?
Yes, once I remember Bulgaria being huge and even having their own Patriarch.
IMO Kazan is in an awkward position, too. There are no provinces of the same religion around (though you are muslim and all your neighbours are orthodox, so it makes up for it), and more importantly the nearest sea is VERY far. I remember when playing it, I was the no. 1 major power for quite some time until I finally got one province with a coast.
Frankoman
12 Aug 2007, 00:14
Bohemia? Psshhh I used to only have the demo and Bohemia was easy, even with just axmen and archers.
Jerusalem, that is one of the toughest, as pointed out, everywhere is muslim or ortheodox, and the State religion is Catholic, plus your starting units are weak, and all these muslims your surrounded by are aggressive.
To make it even tougher, you can not use traders or clerics... that game would be almost impossable... with all this negative money and unhappy catholic muslim people.
Halahmir
12 Aug 2007, 00:15
One of the hardest kingdom i played with was cordoba... as it is a muslim kingdoms and the papacy would CONSTANTLY send crusaders against me. Most of the times i had to fight against 2 or 3 crusaders from all over the world at the same time... and fight against Portugal, Castilla, Leon etc..... all the kingdoms in Spain.
Jerusalem is difficult too... in fact, every christian or orthodox kingdom near Muslim kingdoms are difficult, as you have a LOT of problems dealing with population.
Frankoman
12 Aug 2007, 00:21
Cordoba? Hmm... Don't remember that, but that sounds similar to when I was Portuagal and I beacame Muslim for the heck of it. It was really fun Jihaading against Leon and Arragon's crusades.
Halahmir
12 Aug 2007, 00:30
Hahahaha, thats the difficult thing of being muslim.... I remember once converting my kingdom to muslim as well... but i lost ALL MY TOWNS, except my main town.
What about the Pagan states? True, Crusades could be called against Muslim nations, but Muslim nations can call Jihads for protection in return. While the Pagans can't do much against the incoming crusade. Furthermore, Pagans also gather books quite hard and have no piety and Clerics (i.e. nostalgia is a killer). Plus, it seems that, like in real history, most other states just don't consider the Pagans to be worth of any diplomatic negotiations, be they trade agreements or peace treaties. So I'd go for a Pagan country - the Golden Horde (not so much though - they have nice units), Lithuania... Especially Lithuania - encircled by Catholics (HRE/Germany and the allmighty Sweden) and Orthodox, weak units, danger of crusades and not always a big state...
What about the Pagan states? True, Crusades could be called against Muslim nations, but Muslim nations can call Jihads for protection in return. While the Pagans can't do much against the incoming crusade. Furthermore, Pagans also gather books quite hard and have no piety and Clerics (i.e. nostalgia is a killer). Plus, it seems that, like in real history, most other states just don't consider the Pagans to be worth of any diplomatic negotiations, be they trade agreements or peace treaties. So I'd go for a Pagan country - the Golden Horde (not so much though - they have nice units), Lithuania... Especially Lithuania - encircled by Catholics (HRE/Germany and the allmighty Sweden) and Orthodox, weak units, danger of crusades and not always a big state...
Golden Horde and Lithuania in Late are really big and strong. Lithuania is surrounded by Poland and Russian Principalities not Germany.
Faquirbleu
13 Aug 2007, 14:08
(I play with my own mod but the map and a unit is same as the holy mod 1.8.) It’s hard to play with Jerusalem .I pick my king as Marshal and the Beginning marshal with no army and rush to Ayyubids provinces to plunder I pick the enforce skill to have more gold, stay long away from their marshals, but if you plunder to much like 5 or 6 times they ultimately call a jihad and now not more possible to plunder and pay other nation to do war against them.
I haven't said which period and I have said "encircled", not "neighbouring". Plus, being "big" doesn't automatically make you strong, especially if you're Pagan.
Kazan in second period. Only one province, vassal of Golden Horde and all country around them are ortodox. Pretty unpleasanat situation.
Playing Nicaea can be very hard at the begining especialy when all neighbouring Catholic kingdoms are in war with U.
Jerusalem is also in rough situation.Muslim neighbours, poor army,I wondered why they don't have Teutonic knights or Templars as Special unit?
Sultan Martin
6 Dec 2007, 15:36
I dont think so about Kazan in middle age. Because Kazan has muslim religion what gives their armys a morale bonus and orthodox armys have a morale malus. So its very easy conquer the orthodox realms. :cool:
I dont think so about Kazan in middle age. Because Kazan has muslim religion what gives their armys a morale bonus and orthodox armys have a morale malus. So its very easy conquer the orthodox realms. :cool:
U're right, but begining is hard,cause they are vassals and have only one town. If U proclaim independance early at the begining, Golden Horde will probably crush U ,cause they can recruit peasants from several cities. But I like to play with Kazan , laying low until I became strong enough military and economicaly to beat Horde.
I think Jeruzalem is the hardest state that comes to my mind, since it is surround by (high morale) muslims and doesn't even have very strong units (in my mod). I disagree on Bulgaria, they fare usually moderately well. Volga Bulgaria is one of the stronger states in the Russian provinces as I experienced it. Golden Horde is good for the player, since it has Mongols which are, when deployed in the right way, very strong - although not in sieges. For the AI there are several hard candidates - I think any pagan kingdom. Kazan, in my games, tends to be rather strong.
Hahahaha, thats the difficult thing of being muslim.... I remember once converting my kingdom to muslim as well... but i lost ALL MY TOWNS, except my main town.
Same happens to me sveral times , when I played with Khazars. I conquered towns required to unite Golden Horde, and when I converted to muslim all towns except Saratov became indepedent. Last time I loose all my towns and lost game....but at the other hand sometimes converting to muslim go very slightly,without even rebellion.
Wolfitz
12 Dec 2007, 03:39
Is this a debae over which kingdom is in the most disadvantageous position, or just an opinion thread?...anyways, I think that Zeta is one of the most difficult to play in the Early Era; they are vassals either to Bulgaria or Byzantium(I cannot remember which), they are threatened on all sides by the large kingdoms of Byzantium, Bulgaria, Hungary, and the Italian city states. That's just what I think, but I would also say that Jerusalem is very difficult to play with as well, as it was desribed in the previous posts.
Is this a debae over which kingdom is in the most disadvantageous position, or just an opinion thread?...anyways, I think that Zeta is one of the most difficult to play in the Early Era; they are vassals either to Bulgaria or Byzantium(I cannot remember which), they are threatened on all sides by the large kingdoms of Byzantium, Bulgaria, Hungary, and the Italian city states. That's just what I think, but I would also say that Jerusalem is very difficult to play with as well, as it was desribed in the previous posts.
Zeta is not a vassal. At least, in original KoH.
I think it's Serbia who's a vassal lateron.
Frankoman
12 Dec 2007, 23:46
Someone once mentioned Pagan's having the toughest - I slightly disagree. They still get powerful units, just some penalties making life harder.
Also, with Pagans, the Auto Convert is Awesome :) Play as The Golden Horde or Lithuania and take all Western and Muslim towns, then convert to Christianity, then take all Christan towns - No need for Clerics other then to stop Nostalgia, which you can live with! :P